Disclaimer – this is totally preaching to the choir and really not aimed at anyone here.  Technically it belongs on the vanilla forums where the idiots are but – fuck them and fuck Jerry.  I just want to vent.

I’ll be honest, I’ve pugged as little as possible for at least 5 years now.  I geared and built to make self-sufficient toons so I didn’t have to deal with all the bullshit.  Even when I came back I spent a good 6 months just soloing elite instead of running reaper so I didn’t have to group with idiots.  Even now I’ve figured out you really only need about 6-8 reaper points to solo pussy reaper and half the time I don’t bother putting up groups because it’s quicker to solo than group.

Before I’d only group for the roughly two dozen quests that either require someone to pull levers or stand on something, or are just too damned long or pain-in-the-ass-y to solo (mostly select quests in GH, Necro4 and the Vale – they’re mostly solo-able, but are far quicker in even a bad group).

But I’ve decided I want enough reaper points to absolutely blast through heroics on a higher setting and enough epic past lives to solo epic reaper, which requires me to group more in epics – if nothing else for the more difficult quests to get named gear.

I am fucking hating it.

Does intimidate not work in epics?  Or have people forgotten how to grab aggro?

Seriously.  I hate to be one of those “in the golden age” guys, but…

When did kiting become such a fucking faux pas?  In my day casters kited like mother-fuckers and if you wanted the aggro so you didn’t have to chase down the red name – you grabbed the fucking aggro.

In fact, if you were playing a melee and didn’t do everything you could to pull aggro, you got bitched at.

And I know intimidate still works in heroics – I fucking used it all the time to pull aggro off of casters when I did 6 back to back melee lives last year. 

So why the fuck do you get bitched at now for getting aggro you should have if the melees didn’t suck? 

“Stop kiting so the melees can hit.”
“Fuck you, click fucking intimidate and pull the aggro off me.”

I’m not even playing a hardhitting DPS lock, are the melees in the group fucking using heroic GS items in epic where I can grab aggro so easily?

And the best one -

“Just tank it, I’ll heal you till they draw aggro off you.”
“Bitch, the last 3 melees who tanked a boss ended up as soul stones because you’re too busy casting instead of healing and they had way more AC/PRR than I do.”

Which brings us to -

LEARN TO FUCKING SELF-HEAL!

In reaper I’ll throw heals as quickly as I can but, man…fucking help me help you.  There’s zero excuse not to have cocoon.  I’m not saying you have to be able to fill your bar up with one shot, but you need to be doing something to at least try to self-heal.

And for fuck’s sake, don’t fucking stand there DPSing until you’re a soul stone!  I played a barb for years and died less than most melees.  You get too low, jump back for a second and chug a pot or hit cocoon and, if nothing else, get clear enough that someone else can have a chance to hit you with a heal scroll.

If you’re trying to self-heal, I’m going to support you all the way.  But when I can tell you’re literally doing nothing to keep yourself alive, you die easily and aren’t offering much to the party in anyway – sorry, I’ll drag your stone to the 1st shrine, but scrolls are expensive and I’m not going to blow through a stack of 100 keeping you alive when you’re obviously doing so little to keep yourself alive.

Why the fuck am I healing divines?!

Seriously?!  Why the fuck am I healing divines!?  If you’re playing a Cleric or a FvS and I can tell you’re not throwing heals (or barely throwing heals) to others in reaper – you’re a fucking douche.  But if you’re playing a Cleric, a FvS or a Pal and I can tell you’re never healing your own fucking self, you’re a fucking idiot!

Unless a Pal is tanking, I’ll stop healing them.  I’ll give Barbs and Fighters a pass because it’s harder to get the UMD up or work spell points into the build, but fucking divines have the easiest access to heals in the game.  If they’re not healing themselves or others – fuck them and fuck their soul stones.

Side note -

Your fucking 1st life toon does NOT belong in epic R5 quests!

Self-explanatory.  Go back to korthos.

If someone has aggro – heal them!

I don’t care what you’re playing, and I don’t care what they’re playing.  If someone else is taking the heat, it’s in your best interest to keep them alive.

ESPECIALLY if you’re not doing shit to help kill a boss!

You hit those castle sentinels in RL, I know that I can’t touch them – and I know a lot of the instant kill mob builds can’t touch them either.  Don’t waste your time casting spells that are obviously doing fuck-all to help.  I’ll switch to nothing but support scrolls for those fights – hitting the main tank with heals and restoration as quick as I can to keep him in the fight.

If someone else is doing all the damage, keep them alive.  If someone else is keeping the boss or trash busy for you to do all the damage – you should also keep them alive.

Flexible groups do way better and wipe way less than gaggles of idiots who only know how to do one thing.

Which brings us to -

Melee rouges really have become bottom-feeders.

I’m sure not all are, but man I’ve run with some fucking worthless, douche-bag rogues lately.  And it seems the more there are in the party, the shittier the party is and the higher chance of wiping.

“It’s quicker for me to run through the traps then disarm them.”

Well, fucking good for you.  And that’s why you died.  Because you ran ahead of everyone else and charged into the mob alone while then rest of us were trying to slowly hop through all the traps you couldn’t bother clearing a path through.

And then the rest of us died because when the mob you aggro-ed came charging at us, we had to fight in the middle of a fucking mine field.

You don’t trap, you don’t heal, you don’t rez, you don’t buff others, you can’t tank, you have max threat reduction that pushes all the hate to everyone else making it harder to do what they’re trying to do, what fucking good are you? 

It’s not pac-man!  Stop gobbling up all the lost souls!

Seriously, if someone else’s CC is all that’s keeping the party safe – make sure they’re keeping their bar full.  If someone is actually healing everyone, make sure their blue line never goes empty.  And if someone else is carrying the party through higher level reaper, give them the fucking lost souls!

I can tell when I’m doing all the work and I’ll gobble them up, but if someone else is hitting at a difficulty I’m not hitting – then I won’t touch a single one.

So sick of these idiots who aren’t doing shit to help the party (I’m looking at you FvS boy), not healing, not CCing, not making any kills, but making sure their line never drops below 90% when I’m blast out CC and keeping the mobs in check, then I have to go shrine because someone else is grabbing every soul as soon as they drop.

Zerging is an art.  If you’re dying every 2 minutes, you can’t zerg.  Stop trying!

Maybe you rock in heroics, maybe you rock on elite, I don’t know.  But when you keep zerging off without the group and dying, maybe fucking stop doing that, huh?

Maybe realize someone else’s CC was the only thing keeping you alive and don’t rush into the next mob while the CC guy is shrining.  Maybe realize that if you’re not self-healing, the only way you’re going to get healed is IF SOMEONE FUCKING ELSE IS THERE WITH YOU, YOU FUCKING TARD. 

I have run with some really tight groups over the last 3 or so months I’ve been playing almost nothing but epics.  Those great groups where no one has many reaper points, but you want to stick with the group.  You keep upping the settings – “Let’s try R3 or R4 for this one” and everyone is asking “what’s next” instead of disbanding after finishing a chain.

But man, I’ve mostly run with some really shitty groups.  Groups where the whole thing is a struggle and people drop out as soon as the quest is finished because you died way more than you should have on R1.  Especially if you’ve got a full group – if everyone’s pulling their weight, even in epic there should be few to no deaths in R1.

Addition -

Don't assume everyone knows your cool, super secret tactics for specific quests.

I noticed after nearly 3 years away from the game that a lot of tactics have changed.  The way we used to run certain quests are not the way they're run now.  More importantly, regardless of what you think, NOT EVERYONE IS DOING THE EXACT SAME THING YOU'RE DOING.

Swear to God every time I run Madstone, someone in the group has a different tactic - often times tactics I (and no one else in the group) have ever heard of before.  Some work great, some are *meh*.

Turn the giant invisible, fight at the bottom.
Don't kill the skelies, use them to block the ramp.
Don't kill anything at the top...for some reason. 

You got a different tactic you want to pitch before hand, cool.  I've seen much better players than you occasionally go "I didn't know that."

But don't fucking assume everyone knows your little thing and get pissy about it when they're doing something different.  Don't throw a "WTF" fit when the other 5 guys aren't doing your little thing because maybe your little thing isn't the best work tactic.

Especially if you see half the group are 1st lifers.  Yeah, maybe they're 1st life alts of someone who knows the game, and maybe they're actually someone who hasn't run the quest much or not at all.

So if something needs to not be killed, take a minute and say "hey, when we get up here, don't kill the thing."  The more 1st lifers I see (or obvious not hardcore players by their performance up to that point), the more likely I am to give friendly reminders.

Even with the newer RL quests, I've noticed not everyone skips the same fights.  You want to skip a fight, cool.  Tell people.  You want to not skip a fight, cool.  But don't assume everyone knows what you want or that everyone is running the same quest exactly like you are - because I promise you that they're not.

Feel better getting all that off your chest?   Better out than in, I always say.   

Pugging definitely causes stress.

Asheras wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:48am:


Honestly?  A little

Part of it's on me, I never really bothered cranking out epic lives, so none of my toons have even close to the power they should.  Once I finish a RL set it should take a lot of pressure off my eRing where I can just shoot through lives without needing to group.  It's just getting to that point that's frustrating as hell 

I tend to only run at a difficulty I can solo, but post for pugging.  The whole circle jerk that should happen healing each other seems to be the hardest for folks to pick up on.  I'm with you on constantly raising folks that get in over their head.  One scroll limit from me.  Folks that take off instead of waiting for buffs is irritating, particularly DW, prot from evil.  Oh you got neg lvld?  That sucks...maybe DW would have helped.  Good times.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:


Why would you expect melees to have intim ? Can't fit the gear, skill unless dedicated tank. Maybe apropriate cc/insta spell would be in order instead of the kite fest ?

Why would you not heal the divine ? She/he is probably doing everything to keep your ass alive, heal amp is not easy to slot and even with uber devo the self hjeal penalty is just too restrictive. I can waste 2 sovereignities to full hjeal but why ?

Self heal ? There are cooldowns. My ranger's csw hits others for 500 - 1000, cocoon ticks for 300+. Does fuck all on myself. Proper Renewal from others ticks for 1k often.

1st lifer doesn't belong in r5 ? What does it have to do with anything ? It's just 4 build points. Some of the biggest tards have 20 lives in bios. And holy shit it's becoming more like a norm.

And no, hjealing priority is not about "who has aggro".

But yeah, pugging generally sucks. Most people can't see their own health bar.Others ? just forget it. After tossing every csw, cocoon, Resurrections to others, then bleeding because noone can cocoon me for 10 seconds, I give up and say good luck. And rather keep pestering the very few people I play with.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

Most of the Social Skills have been borked since forever. Hitting the "Magic Numbers" for Intim and Diplo or whatever were a write off for all but the most dedicated tanks, which nobody played for years until Reaper mode came out.

Threat gen is easier to manage, but even then it requires dedicated gear, which is again, 90% on the tank.

So yes, people forgot how to grab aggro. A long time ago.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

Everyone did, but Reaper made it moot past about 3 skulls, even if you're very good at it.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

See above.

But in fairness, Divines who don't heal are nothing new. When I did my Divine PL's pre-Reaper, if I clicked a PuG I would almost always get back a PM asking:

"Do you heal?"

Which I did, but others apparently did not.

Also bear in mind that playing a Hjealer is an art: I am not a great player so I restricted myself to a given role with secondary role capacity. So Heals and CC or Heals and Spell DPS or the like. Some people think they are "All Things At Once" and forget that melee DPS is not where a Cleric shines.

You can't heal stupid.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

Wipe got this, but yeah... Playing Skill > Accumulated PL's any day of the week. "Playing skill" includes gear and build. My PDK 1st life Vanguard is better than dimwits with Completionist trying the same thing. And I am not a great builder or player, so...

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

Goes without saying. If they don't, coach them. If they still don't, that's what the /ignore function is for.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

I'm frankly surprised people are still playing Melee Rogues, although the Vistani tree probably made it more attractive of late. Mechanic is where Rogue DPS is at, but whatever. A shitty Rogue is shitty, no matter how you slice it.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

That's just common douchebaggery. Although, with the number of Tardlocks running around, most PuGs probably don't even notice if there's another caster in the group.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:

The fastest way to Zerg is not to zerg.

As my classical guitar teacher said: "Speed is the by-product of accuracy."

Precision in all things nets the best results.

RolyPoly wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:32am:

I am sorry for your loss.

PUGs are the ultimate challenge in the game. I used to love 'em - probably pugged 75% of my time in the game.

Guilding your way through quests? Easy as pie.

Soloing? Might be challenging, might not.

...but there's one thing harder than soloing, and that's carrying. 

acidpickachu wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:52am:


I'm the hardest thing in the world after watching a good halfling snuff film

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:


No.  Just no.  You fail entirely.

Why the fuck are you healing devines?  Because they can't heal themselves in reaper.  You heal them you feckless cunt because that's your fucking job.

If other people are standing there killing shit until they die, they are doing their fucking jobs.  Support them by throwing them a heal, don't claim that they suck.  Because you're the one who sucks.




I throw a lot more heals to others in reaper.  That can be Heal scrolls or cocoon or whatever.  That doesn't change if I'm the lead dps or dp killer, because keeping the team alive if more important than leading the kills coun t.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 21^st, 2018 at 2:44am:


To be fair, the art of the melee divine is a lost thing to most players. Doesn't help that the innate tree to do such is dogshit and the devs literally just spent a year (since it was first brought up in the Player's Council) and 2 lamannia cycles ignoring player feedback on the situation.

But don't worry, you're supposed to play a FVS and spam the beacon abilities like a brain dead gopher in between your cleaves. Assuming you can manage that much.

Edrein wrote on Jul 21^st, 2018 at 2:54am:


I did a few runs with a cleric heavy tank that impressed the hell out of me.  She could take a beating.  She'd just aggro the boss then block and left me free to do whatever.  Yeah, I healed the hell out of her for a 6 quest run.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:15am:


So, on the third giant in madstone, if ONE person goes up to the giant (everyone stay down by the minotaurs, or better yet, everyone else go and start killing optional wizard skeletons) that person can go up top and easily get the aggro of all the mobs up there.. then he jumps down and stands just under the "cave" where he see the giant.  the 6 mobs on top stay aggro on the guy under the lip of the cave but can't hit him and they don't attack the giant. 

That guy can just kill the 2 minotaurs that spawn from below every time.

Easy Peasy, and you don't have to keep fighting the mobs up top.  And you can get other people getting the optional skeleton wizard xp and getting ready to run up the mountain.

Now that guy can't run too far back towards the minotaurs or else he lose aggro, but anyone who is the slightest bit good can take care of two minotaurs every 45 seconds.

Skoodge wrote on Jul 21^st, 2018 at 2:44am:



I see this a LOT.. and it's fucking aggravating.  My current build is a 'Lock... slightly tanky.. I have a couple means of keeping my HP up, but in Mobs things can get tight even with decent HP. Once you've got something on your ass and they get the flanking bonus and start wailing on you you need to be able to move or heal.

Problem is, I find myself in a position where I have to get out Rez scrolls or toss out Cocoons so we can keep the team viable on their various rolls.

I get it.. everybody likes to bang... but if you've got BARELY 1k HP.. and your PRR/MRR is low... stay in the fucking rear ranks and do support like you're fucking needed to do..

If it's situational, I can live with that. No point in pissing away the few Grip clears you have running Strahd before you get to the end fight.... while you're still hunting cards. But for fuck sake, if you can heal and you see the tank dropping under 30%.. FUCKING HEAL them!