I really miss my old school Juggernaut build from back in the day. It was primarily melee, but could range in a pinch, plus self-healing and traps. I really enjoyed the sheer utility the build offered.

So, the question is, what build, if any, offers similar utility in today's game?

Rzyman wrote on Sep 5^th, 2018 at 7:40pm:

A "juggernaut" build was/is some sort of melee Artificer.

Search for it on the DDO Forums. There are at least a few different versions.

Rzyman wrote on Sep 5^th, 2018 at 7:40pm:


The one I played was 2 monk / 2 paladin / 16 artificer. It was mostly a melee build with evasion(back when evasion was good). It had extensive self-healing/self buffing capability and could trap. You could also switch to ranged combat in a pinch and not be completely useless. In it's time it was a fantastic build.

But yeah, now it is gimp as fuck. I tried to play one again recently(sometime last year I think) and it was... bad.


Rzyman wrote on Sep 5^th, 2018 at 8:19pm:


Not really quite what I'm after. I may just do another pure artificer and burn a feat on bastard sword proficiency. /sigh

noamineo wrote on Sep 5^th, 2018 at 2:56pm:

Is this a trick question?  Traps require at least a 1 level splash of artie or rogue.

Primarily melee (assume you mean good at melee DPS):  ranger, monk, rogue, fighter, barbarian
Range in a pinch (assume you mean decent ranged DPS burst even if not top-tier):  ranger, monk, rogue, artificer
Self-healing (assuming you don't mean barb/monk hit-to-heal stuff since it doesn't work on ranged):  cleric, FvS, paladin, ranger, artificer (meh in reaper), druid

Eliminate the classes that don't exist in all three lists:

Primarily melee:  ranger, monk, rogue, fighter, barbarian
Range in a pinch:  ranger, monk, rogue, artificer
Self-healing:  cleric, FvS, paladin, ranger, artificer, druid

Lo' and behold, there's the answer.  Ranger class provides the melee DPS and healing. Ranged DPS is a combination of ranger and rogue or artie abilities.  Trapping is obviously from the rogue or artie splash. 

If you prefer bows + manyshot, I'd go 18 ranger, 2 rogue probably.  For xbows, I'd probably go 16 ranger, 4 artificer but that'd requires burning 22 AP for Endless Fusilade which will probably cost you some melee DPS.

The rogue splash probably has more synergy with being primarily melee if that's what you're after.

12 wiz 4 arti 2 rogue warforged? Evasion, can go undead, can go PK, reconstruct self, 20+ both melee and ranged power just from racial and harper, swf, ef. Can go tank if needed, 2 cleaves just from enchantments. Feats are: swf line x3, rapid shot, insghtful reflexes, precision, improves criticals. Wizzy ones are quicken, heighten and extend. For last one w/e you want either completionist if any, bastard sword prof or body feat. Int to hit and dmg from harper.
Can repaie self, do not-too-shitty dps, shoot with repeaters, respec in whatever you want for whatever quest you play.
Of corse without very solid set of pastlifes, books and gear this wont work outside heroics r1s and epic hard.
In general if you are not hunting for challenging difficulties almost anything may work, swashi-bard drow with shurikens at backup, pally arti splash, cleric falconer in war domain, 12 sorc/ 2 rog/ 6 pally bf and so on. Right now you can get good enough gear to make working almost anything. The issue is none of it working on reaper starting 3-5 skulls.

Theory-crafting a bit on Rzyman's build:

Quote:


This is mostly just notes for myself but I welcome feedback.

EDIT: Missed the Artificer bonus feat at lvl 4, that actually improves things a lot.

Yes, sorry, posting at nights mostly, before go to bed, so was just tired 13 wiz 2 monk 5 arti is way to go imo. Monk = extra feats + evasion and better saves, 13 wiz open both PK and fod, 5 arti allows to go t5 BE if you feel so. Evasion is still as great as it used to be if you can handle to have high reflex. Fighter splash is the best and I am personally myself gonna run 8 ftr 12 wiz wf (str based though), yet you have to choose what to drop: evasion and ef or kensei t5, or ability to do traps like I will.
For pally splash there may be interesting options too, yet pretty high to slot cha, con, int and str at once. Super high saves may be used nicely with evasion, while in sacred defender you may find a good use or extra 20% hp. BF themself have reconstruct sla and repair spells. If you okay to drop evasion there is your new jaggernaut:
14 pallly 5 arti 1 wizard BF.
Main role: offtank thw or tank with shield.
Feats:
1) power attack
3) cleave
6) ada body
9) imroved crit slashing
12) shield mastery
15) improved shield mastery
18) combat expertise
21) overwhelming criticals
24) construct exemplar
27) epic damage reduction
30) bulwark of defence
26) guardian angel
28) elusive target
29) deflic warding OR dire charge.
Wizard feat: quicken
Arti feat: extend or rapid shot.
Starting stats:
13 str
18 cha + lvl ups
Rest into con and int, w/e you feel comfy up to your tomes.
Skills: intimidate, umd, dd, search, repair if have points
14 pally cause of holy weapon
1 wizzy cause if quicken, 3 buffs, +10% AC.
5 arti cause of ability to take t5 renegade mastermaker.

Weapons: sos, esos, riftmaker, epic antique gaxe, rage chain scimitar + shield set, tail, any vorpal repeaters, Fatal Flaw.

First role to level up self is thw bruiser. So you will need to slot cha, str and con. Cha for saves and divine might for ins str. you'll need swap gear for traps anyway, including int, and if you go harper you may use int gear when go ranged. For ranged swap to both repeater and runearm. Vorpal repeaters working on heroics fine without any stat to damage.

You can go t5 BE + t3 harper and use repeater only if you feel like, may go kotc t5 and rmm to have 4 cleaves on heroic (+momentum and lay waste on epics!), may go t5 rmm and t4 std to become unkillable tank (ton of ac, +16 con and +40% hp).

This is solid set for epics too. Good crit profile, good str (so okay DCs), 6 cleaves, solid tankiness and self repairs. In LD you can perform decent dps both with repeater and thw, in US and shield in offhand you may become very nice self sufficient tank.

Cons:
1) you cant have all at once. Being tank nerfing damage badly, being ranged nerfing rest, expensive racial tree. Overall to switch styles you'll have to respec a lot.
2) very gear and tome dependent. Hard to trap without int tomes, gear swapping and trapping skill tomes.
3) you may find self very tanky on lower epics, yet still not playable on higher skulls until you find a guy who will repair you. If you handle to gather party with a wizard and/or some artificers you may run midskulls with it as intimidate tank. But until than nope, r1 max.
4) no really good way to spellcast. You still can take up to t5 arcanotechnician, but hey, this wont work outside epic normal

Pure ranger tempest.   In no way is that capstone worth giving up for trap skills.

noamineo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2018 at 11:49pm:


Ranger is autogranted TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot, and IPS

Rzyman wrote on Sep 5^th, 2018 at 8:19pm:



Before mastermaker is was gimp.  Arti was repeater or caster, any melee build was strictly flavor.  Now, it kinda works.  It's sorta like bard, a blue bar that can fight and throw spells/heals.  I think it's still mostly flavor, but I haven't run it so I can't speak from play knowledge.

Rzyman wrote on Sep 10^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:


So I did a build-test on this guy last night. Bladeforged iconic at 15, very shit for gear and no tomes(gear was whatever was laying around in the shared bank). First thing to say - wait as long as you can to take the paladin levels so that more int tomes kick in, you'll want as many skillpoints as possible to feed into Search&Disable. That being said, it was a pretty fine build, even on gimp AF first life bladeforged. Plenty survivable, decent DPS, easy switch between playstyles. Will definitely be giving it a more solid go life after next on my main.

noamineo wrote on Sep 12^th, 2018 at 11:08am:


I don't think that it was so much nerfed as things around it were buffed to the point that it became sub-par.  The original was before my time so I'm just speculating here.

noamineo wrote on Sep 6^th, 2018 at 11:16am:


noamineo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:


Why the hate for evasion?  Light or no armor and evasion is still better than heavy armor.  Medium armor is speculative based on your ability to build in dodge via enhancements.  Heavy armor is mostly just easy mode prr.

A class that uses heavy armor might find it easier to go heavy, but most classes and builds will get better defenses with light and evasion.  I linked a heavy armor in guild chat a while ago and a guildy said 'only a 2 mdb.'  I replied 'I have a 10 dex so...'  But that was in heroics and on a build that didn't use dex at all. 

Digimonk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:


And that would be all of them, since cocoon is a tier 1 twist.

You want more heals?  Play a damn cleric and stfu.  Or go aasimar since hands is so op.

noamineo wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2018 at 11:11am:


When I first started playing I was told that all of my characters needed to take toughness to be viable.  I came from PnP where I would never have taken toughness, but the guy was a vet and I was a noob so I listened to him.  Turns out he was one of those vets who clings to old ideas, and toughness was a thing of the past.  But you do get one free feat respec per char, so it wasn't a complete waste.

More on evasion:  It isn't worth a damn if you don't make that reflex save.  So if you go evasion you also have to stack up reflex or it's just a waste of time.  And ofc stacking up dodge is obvious if you're ditching heavy armor for robes/light.