The interesting thing about the discussion (even if it is kind of derailed from the OP) is that everyone is kinda right.

Rose-Tinted (henceforth RtG) argues that the DDO f2p model is outdated. This is true. He also argues that VIP is basically a requirement. While I don't agree with this 100%, from the perspective of a NEW player, it would seem to be very much true.

I have guildees who STILL don't own Red Fens or Threnal, and grouping for certain levels is a hassle since 90% of the content at those points is p2p.

Noanimeo argues that a lot of the MMO landscape has borrowed their business model from Mobile Gaming, which is Micro-Transaction pay-to-win Hell. That is also correct. DDO gives the option to buy the packs individually or "lease"them via VIP. Again, this is either shrewd business or unintentional excellence on the part of SSG (I believe the latter).

I personally only had 2 months of VIP that came with the Uber-Bundle of Ravenloft. I enjoyed the Elite/Reaper unlock, but I felt railroaded the entire time. I bought or ground out the TP for most of the content, but I have at other times shelled out more than a VIP would ultimately have cost. I see this from both sides.

Skoodge and Asheras I agree with: They need to start adding some loss-leader player-friendly stuff to the mix for Daily Dice. I have 15 alts and not ONE of them needs even the Tomes or XP that I'd get for rolling 100. And forget all those useless pots... I chug them right away or they just clog up my inventory.

Asheras also made a point of saying that the XP rewards should be higher because then you could conceivably bank enough for Level 4. I sort of agree... But I see why they aren't doing it. Better would be an option for "Veteran TR" that lets you TR with 80k XP. I'd gladly pay to skip Korthos.

Hilariously, the OLD lottery that showed up in your mail was better. I at least had a use for some of that stuff... Free hirelings, hair dye/ hair styles. Astral Diamonds, Beholder Gems, Mummy Rot cures. The odd trinket crafting blank.

I don't know what the answer is here, since I haven't played enough of the other available MMOs to judge. But the ones I did play didn't hold my interest for more than a week or two before I wanted to come back to DDO, which is telling.

Also telling is that I now log into DDO maybe 5 times a week and maybe run 4 quests in that time. I just can't face the grind. Too much development time has been wasted micro-targeting to the shut-in ultra-grinders who already had Triple Completionist everything before Reaper rolled out.

It's not the developers job to cater to somebody who won't play anything but their one preferred build. That's a personal problem and self-imposed limitation, like Perma-Death. If you're steamrolling content, try another build. Don't piss and moan in the Mobos until the devs rebuild the entire fucking game (Reaper mode) to suit your fucking whims.

That time would have been better spent creating more quest content that's sorely need from 20-30.

I did go check out the trailers for Black Desert Online... It looks a little "Anime Phanboi" but seems interesting.

The <1000 xp stones I just use right away.

Anything 1k+ though I bank.  It only takes 8k to hit level 2.  One trip around the harbor on R1 in about 40~50 minutes is enough to get you to level 4~5.

5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 1:27pm:

Lol mate you have no idea how many packs you are playing just to get to 20. Even with all the cheese and farm you are minimum doing von, necro 2, 4,  3bc, RR, vale, gianthold. If epics add sands, gambit, amrath, sentinels, carnival. VIP gives most classes and races. Now count all of thos shit and convert to $. Ah, almost forgot, if you actually not runing VIP and 30-50% pots you need like 2 times more packs if you dont want to farm all the shit on r-e-h starting life 3.

Metal-Beast wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 2:55pm:


I watched a friend play it for about 30 mins once and it looked dull as dirt.  But he said he was playing a low level alt and that the 'real game' whatever that meant didn't start until you got past some level 50 quest or something, since it did look so dull I wasn't paying close attention.  Until then I think people can't pvp you and all you do it run solo quests and set yourself up to work on crafting skills while you're offline.

That advancing while offline thing seems like a very different thing, since I'd love for all of my trash look to melt itself for me if I logged off with it in the shared bank.

higgildypiggildy wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:57am:


I actually happen to like swapping out my equipment; my main complaint about the low levels is that the gear is so uninteresting. Its less about having best-in-slot gear for every level, and more "ooh, I get to use this cool item I spent a month farming for!"

Probably going to put together a similar group of gear-sets though. The main hassle right now is that farming for named loot is a giant pain in the ass. It took me, I shit you not, close to 700 runs over multiple lives of Tavern Brawl just to get fucking Barbette's Bracers. I don't want to think about many times I'm going to have to do Slavers part 1 to get the Spinneret.

higgildypiggildy wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:57am:

With pastlifes, reaper points, ship buffs, etc not really need anything but invulv armor and nicked weapon till 4-7. May want crafted keen weapon with ruby of ghostbane.
At lvl  7 +5 red fens gear (tasty 30 striding for ones without quiver), now bta
Lvl 8 heroic slavers
Lvl 10 ravenloft gear, no see point to craft anything at this level.
Lvl 13 +7/3 stat gear
Lvl 18 +9/4 stat gear
Lvl 23 +11/5 stat gear or wpm stuff.

Used to use devil handiwork set for trappers, especially splashed ones, but ravenloft stuff kinda better in all positions, have crafted +25 dd/17open lock googles for 8 base int builds though

Ravenloft gear changed itemization both for heroics and epics. You can get just like + ~20 melee power with 2 sets and some mythic bonuses, thats insanely big for lvl 10 and no crafted gear can get you there.