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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Arcane DPS pass (Read 18392 times)
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #25 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 9:40am
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The cooldowns feel really good on these spells.

FYI, thunderstrike and iceberg share a cooldown of 3s.
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #26 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 12:08pm
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As per usual Digimonk proves why the devs shouldn't listen to players >.>

He was right. What we have now is wildly absurd ee/r1 dps that wasnt needed when they could have simply just lowered the amount of reaper scaling tied to magical damage on each skull. Instead it's lol right now.

And every caster will still play the same. They will have all the necro and enchant dcs while having burst dps.

In r10 a good wiz or sorc will prolly do around 1.5k dps at a low cost of 1500~ sp to deal (30k r10) 500k ee total.

The same damage from a melee will be 2k dps. There were easier ways of getting to this point across all skulls by simply allowing the debuff to not be as low as it is currently.

And is this sustainable on a raid boss in r10? ratio of 1500 sp to deal 30k damage across 20 seconds. Say youre godly with 9k sp. You have 6 spell bar pools worth of 30k damage.
« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2018 at 12:33pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Asheras
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #27 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:35pm
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Digimonk wrote on Nov 13th, 2018 at 12:38pm:
One of the easiest ways they could fix evo casters in reaper is to add a passive, fairly fast spell point regen effect to them.  Or in other words, just give Evo casters a stance that works in a similar manner to the Epic Defensive stance for melee.  Have it give a steady and relatively endless spell point supply to Evo casters while reducing non-Evo spellpowers and DCs to zero and reduce healing range to touch.

If they did that, at least Evo casters would be able to stay active, casting a steady stream of damage and feel like they're contributing to the group on a consistent basis which is what ranged and melee DPS currently do.


I'm not a fan of this idea, specifically, but I agree with you that spell point pool management is the bigger issue.  Not raw DPS.
  
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #28 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 12:09am
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From my perspective caster nuking was always meant to be burst dps not sustained, because of it being tied to a spell point pool so upping the damage per spell point is a thing that accomplishes that goal? If nuking is supposed to be sustained then I guess upping  the damage numbers misses the mark because eventually you run out of spell points. But if everything has to be good at sustained dps then we've already lost the war on every class being homogenized to just pure dps with similar numbers and playstyles just different buttons to hit.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #29 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 5:28pm
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DnD wrote on Nov 14th, 2018 at 1:58pm:
What about the EK changes?


They improved the tree from the junk tree that it had been for almost forever.  That is about the only good thing that can be said I think.  I don't anticipate seeing a pile more EKs in groups.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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iGouger
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #30 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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EK looks like it's still gonna be shit. correct me if I'm mistaken
  
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Digimonk
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #31 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 12:27am
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As per usual Digimonk proves why the devs shouldn't listen to players >.>

And you keep proving why nobody should listen to you.


Rubbinns wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 12:08pm:
He was right.

Asheras wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:35pm:
I'm not a fan of this idea, specifically, but I agree with you that spell point pool management is the bigger issue.  Not raw DPS.




Digimonk wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
See Grahmn?  This is your future if you persist.  You'll be so sore and traumatized that even a year later, harmless jokes and neutral comments will trigger you into bringing back up year-old things you misunderstood and got rekt on and since haven't grown up enough to figure out even now.  Next thing you know, you'll be putting stuff about me in your signature lines because you got triggered so badly.

Can't say I didn't warn you.  Granted, you only made it two months instead of a year but that's not surprising giving how fast you went downhill on the first go around.

  
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Wipe
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #32 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 5:33am
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There are like 30 people that know how to play a caster.
Every single newbie will do heroic tardlock and never stop being useless in epics.
Nothing will change. You want control, not another aoe deeps usually. Unless it's magnitude better than martial deeps output.
  
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #33 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 1:34pm
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More idiots telling you you're right =/= you being right >.> especially given that this site is largely anti-turbine/ssg so it's not in the least surprising that someone else would agree with you that they did something wrong? But no keep being wrong.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #34 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 2:26pm
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this site is largely anti-turbine/ssg

awwww
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Zehnpai
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #35 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Wipe wrote on Nov 19th, 2018 at 5:33am:
Nothing will change. You want control, not another aoe deeps usually. Unless it's magnitude better than martial deeps output.


I mean which would be fine if they at least made it clear that's what it should be.  But 95% of enhancement trees for casters are based around doing more dps.

If we had a half-assed decent LFM system so that you could play support roles (tank/healer/control) and level them up, that'd be nice too.

  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #36 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 3:05pm
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More idiots telling you you're right =/= you being right >.> especially given that this site is largely anti-turbine/ssg so it's not in the least surprising that someone else would agree with you that they did something wrong? But no keep being wrong.

But when even the idiots laugh at you because because of how stupid you are...

Of course the obvious defense and rebuttal to that would be for you to list all the smart people telling you that you're right.  How's that list going?


#stilleasilytriggered
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2018 at 3:10pm by Digimonk »  
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #37 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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Man you just double down immediately when someone points out your bad? What, did you go to the Tilomere school of being bad and unable to cope? Because your ideas of trying to make all the classes play exactly the same reeks of soundburst on everything.

Also, where do I find the smart people on this site? I haven't seen any around, maybe they are hiding?
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2018 at 3:48pm by »  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #38 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 4:04pm
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Also, where do I find the smart people on this site? I haven't seen any around, maybe they are hiding?


You sir are obviously a gay retard from France, just kill yourself.
  
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #39 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 19th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
You sir are obviously a gay retard from France, just kill yourself.


You got me, i'm a flav sock
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #40 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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It's a big spell point cost to dps in r10. Clearing just one pack of trash mobs will take over a thousand spell points. Unless insta kills and charms are thrown in. Not accounting for any buffs, debuffs or cc spells cast. There are way, way more packs of trash than spell point pools. Quests or raids where there are many red names, or few shrines, or both, are going to be carried by melee dps. Nothing was really solved in high skulls for casters with this pass.

Anyone hoping for more will have to hope ssg addresses spell point costs through gearing in the future. Unlikely as potions are a store item, and anything they do will just unbalance the lower difficulties.

In high skulls, it is still a cc caster you want. The only benefit a caster gets now is having a way to dps down warded trash, sparingly. Which your melees would probably end up doing so any way...

Unless you just buy endless potions. Then you can dps non-stop and be slightly below melees in focused dps. Which SSG is fine with as they sell spell point potions in the store. 

For elite and low skulls the dps will make people happy. Even up to mid skulls when backed by helpless damage.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #41 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 8:02pm
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Yeah but if you're in r10 trying to nuke trash when you're a caster that can easily spec for instakills and cc you're doing it wrong. It's basically to me just a bonus to those casters being absolutely useless as fuck in boss fights, now they get a little leg up for slotting some spell power in their gear.

If you toss in some sort of infinite spell pool you're probably just better off going with a thrower build or something that already exists because that's all you'd be doing at that point is trading off a class feature for sustained ranged dps.

I get it, DPS is king in ddo, and in r10 questing nothing beats out 4 dps and an instakills or two for speed completions. But that's the mess that the "Well what about moar sustained dps" and "well i'd rather just play alone but i want to play the toughest difficulty too" crowd got us. Just some DPS test where casters are more efficient making everything a training dummy or dead. Shoehorned into a no win scenario where either they give nuke casters an indefinite supply of spell points to compensate and change their nuke spells into sustained damage spells so they can be in line with all other forms of ranged dps and kill any uniqueness of the class, or you get "moar damage dice!"

The more the devs listen to you little munchkining fucks that need more sparkly damage numbers  so that LD is practically the only dps tree, and gearing synergy that gives us stupid shit like prowess because nobody can stand to trade off dps for survivability  and whine melee sucks, the more sucked into developing only for the meta the devs get and the worse the game becomes because nobody can just sit there and say "well this is a rational change, it's not over the top so it's not impressive and that's ok" It's always this bullshit from the player base "well Symbiont just soloed r20 with his barbarian druid favored soul build so anything you guys do has to fall in line with that".

I mean take a look at the bitch and moan from eldritch knight's pass. It sounds like a really fun idea, but nobody can get past the idea that it won't be meta, so it's garbage. The first person who says that starts a tidal wave of "he's totally right it's not meta so garbage". They have to sift through thousands of Digimonk retard posts saying that it's not gonna be uber so it's not worthwhile like the only thing they are allowed to design for is the meta, which is poor design.

/rantover TL:DR The meta is killing the game and blames the devs, player feeback is subjectively shit, and that's all i've got for this thread.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #42 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 8:22pm
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Yeah but if you're in r10 trying to nuke trash when you're a caster that can easily spec for instakills and cc you're doing it wrong. It's basically to me just a bonus to those casters being absolutely useless as fuck in boss fights, now they get a little leg up for slotting some spell power in their gear.

If you toss in some sort of infinite spell pool you're probably just better off going with a thrower build or something that already exists because that's all you'd be doing at that point is trading off a class feature for sustained ranged dps.

I get it, DPS is king in ddo, and in r10 questing nothing beats out 4 dps and an instakills or two for speed completions. But that's the mess that the "Well what about moar sustained dps" and "well i'd rather just play alone but i want to play the toughest difficulty too" crowd got us. Just some DPS test where casters are more efficient making everything a training dummy or dead. Shoehorned into a no win scenario where either they give nuke casters an indefinite supply of spell points to compensate and change their nuke spells into sustained damage spells so they can be in line with all other forms of ranged dps and kill any uniqueness of the class, or you get "moar damage dice!"

The more the devs listen to you little munchkining fucks that need more sparkly damage numbers  so that LD is practically the only dps tree, and gearing synergy that gives us stupid shit like prowess because nobody can stand to trade off dps for survivability  and whine melee sucks, the more sucked into developing only for the meta the devs get and the worse the game becomes because nobody can just sit there and say "well this is a rational change, it's not over the top so it's not impressive and that's ok" It's always this bullshit from the player base "well Symbiont just soloed r20 with his barbarian druid favored soul build so anything you guys do has to fall in line with that".

I mean take a look at the bitch and moan from eldritch knight's pass. It sounds like a really fun idea, but nobody can get past the idea that it won't be meta, so it's garbage. The first person who says that starts a tidal wave of "he's totally right it's not meta so garbage". They have to sift through thousands of Digimonk retard posts saying that it's not gonna be uber so it's not worthwhile like the only thing they are allowed to design for is the meta, which is poor design.

/rantover TL:DR The meta is killing the game and blames the devs, player feeback is subjectively shit, and that's all i've got for this thread.


The problem is the game has never favored characters that try to do too much.  Being able to cast and melee can be a thing, but for harder content its better to be focused in one of those aspects, otherwise you are dead weight.

The problem is reaper mode, there are plenty of mechanics instituted in this game where it could have made reaper mode something different.  Mobs could have had resists, prr, mrr, dodge, AC, arcane buffs/divine buffs.

Instead they just instituted inflated numbers, deflated numbers and the exact same mobs with a few champ mobs.

There are so many variation of buffs and debuffs in this game not used because why? they dont need to be. Reaper mode was an opportunity for that and they missed it big time.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #43 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 8:38pm
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Man you just double down immediately when someone points out your bad? What, did you go to the Tilomere school of being bad and unable to cope? Because your ideas of trying to make all the classes play exactly the same reeks of soundburst on everything.

Also, where do I find the smart people on this site? I haven't seen any around, maybe they are hiding?

As opposed to the great ideas you've offered up?  Thus far, the only solution you've proposed amounts to "don't play an evo caster in high skull". 

Yeah, that's a great fix that obviously increases the variety of builds that are viable in high skull content.  Ironically, you actually suggested that as a solution after trying (and failing) to show that my idea, which would actually let evo casters play like evo casters, by suggesting something that evo casters don't play like evo casters.  /facepalm

Assuming this is a thread full of not-smart people, all you're doing is lowering the bar and proving you don't have a clue about the main problem Evo casters have in mid to high skull content. 

Sadly, I don't think you're even trolling with that dumbass suggestion.  You seem serious and apparently you're really just that clueless, aren't you?
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2018 at 8:43pm by Digimonk »  
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #44 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 8:51pm
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I main a toon that does too much. I heal, buff, crowd control, and dps. Am I stellar at each of those things? No. It takes alot of work though to get to that point. Is it better to be focused? Maybe in harder content,

Half your list of stuff they could have done is just essentially more hp bloat. They didn't probably put in an instakill debuff because people bitched and moaned about it for old epics. Sorcs already suffer enough from being stringed into maybe 2 different elemental types, more resists would harm more than help.

They can't make any massive changes to mob dynamics because where do you go from champs to make reaper any special besides i dunno the reapers they added. They could add more reaper types but because of dps bloat and the dilemma all DMs run into is things die alot faster than you think the more people are actively beating on it. Been playing Guild Wars 2 alot lately and you can see the problem first hand there with world bosses and 200 some odd people beating on it, if you blink at all you miss the spawn. Other than that there just isn't the tech to do anything different, they'd be better off just creating reaper only dungeons but that would be a gotcha because everyone is already chomping at the bit to say I told you so when they actually design for reaper because so far they've only done it vaguely.

I'd like to see what buffs and debuffs in the game are not used in higher reaper. I know I use my full bag of tricks on my bard at any given chance.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #45 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:02pm
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Yep, Digi you've officially been drinking that Tilo koolaid. "My bad ideas are at least ideas" Go chone.

Making evo casters sustained dps types is fuckin retarded.
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:04pm by »  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #46 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:28pm
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I main a toon that does too much. I heal, buff, crowd control, and dps. Am I stellar at each of those things? No. It takes alot of work though to get to that point. Is it better to be focused? Maybe in harder content,

Half your list of stuff they could have done is just essentially more hp bloat. They didn't probably put in an instakill debuff because people bitched and moaned about it for old epics. Sorcs already suffer enough from being stringed into maybe 2 different elemental types, more resists would harm more than help.

They can't make any massive changes to mob dynamics because where do you go from champs to make reaper any special besides i dunno the reapers they added. They could add more reaper types but because of dps bloat and the dilemma all DMs run into is things die alot faster than you think the more people are actively beating on it. Been playing Guild Wars 2 alot lately and you can see the problem first hand there with world bosses and 200 some odd people beating on it, if you blink at all you miss the spawn. Other than that there just isn't the tech to do anything different, they'd be better off just creating reaper only dungeons but that would be a gotcha because everyone is already chomping at the bit to say I told you so when they actually design for reaper because so far they've only done it vaguely.

I'd like to see what buffs and debuffs in the game are not used in higher reaper. I know I use my full bag of tricks on my bard at any given chance.


Mrr debuff, prr debuff, healing amp debuff, -stats, to name a few
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #47 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:30pm
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which abilities do those things? except for the stats, that comes mainly from weapons.
  
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #48 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:32pm
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Making evo casters sustained dps types is fuckin retarded.

Why? This is exactly what they have done for elite. Evo casters are largely sustained in elite difficulties due to cost per kill, no reaper debuff, and a few shrines. Why shouldn't a caster be able to sustain dps in r10?

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Arcane DPS pass
Reply #49 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:43pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:32pm:
Why? This is exactly what they have done for elite. Evo casters are largely sustained in elite difficulties due to cost per kill, no reaper debuff, and a few shrines. Why shouldn't a caster be able to sustain dps in r10?



Same reason why you don't give THF the same single target dps as TWF. I mean if you want to keep pushing to where we have cookie cutter builds like every other MMO because they just shrug their shoulders and make it so that each class does the same dps and has the same utility and has the same survivability go ahead. I'm in the camp that they just need to increase the burst damage of nuking spells so they ya know, nuke. If you just want to make a shuricannon that tosses fire/ice/lightning/acid instead of shuris then yeah totally go with giving them an infinitely refilling spell point pool, because nobody will ever abuse that for something else ever.

And if you're gonna be a silly fuck and go all in on nuking and don't explore the full potential of the class with it's crowd control spells ect. then yeah you're gonna suck just as much as someone that goes all into dps and forgets to gear for survivability for melee that keep whining that melee sucks in reaper.
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2018 at 9:46pm by »  
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