Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Lam Kobs (Read 3551 times)
ZooperDooper
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1205
Joined: Oct 27th, 2014
Lam Kobs
Apr 17th, 2019 at 12:34am
Print Post  
Been goofing over on Lam.. think I finally have my end build all worked out.. wanted to test a little bit, so tried out the Kobs downstairs.....

And it occurs to me I have no fucking idea what the numbers mean.. Can anyone help?

Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
5 Foot Step
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


I Hate Idiots!

Posts: 11119
Location: USA
Joined: Mar 8th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 10:40am
Print Post  
It's a kill timer in seconds.
  

Build links
Endgame Gear Guide
Cannith Crafting Planner link

Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ZooperDooper
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1205
Joined: Oct 27th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #2 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 11:14am
Print Post  
so, whats the average? I noticed that the gearset I settled on procs way more in the dojo then out in quests, but am wondering how far behind decent times I am.

DPS Test Kobold - 18.2
DPS Boss Kobold - 89.69

These aren't averages, those were my best. Lag was really bad, so a few were WAY longer, but ones that didn't hang all stayed within a couple sec of my best.

Oh! I had one time on the regular kobold that was going crazy fast, constant procs, but my computer went nuts and kept entering "1's"..  I yanked my keyboard and they still kept coming, so I'm assuming it was my Corsair Macros software taking a shit.. never saw what the time was Sad

Had to reboot
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2019 at 11:20am by ZooperDooper »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
the_biggest_dog
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


fuck

Posts: 123
Joined: Mar 7th, 2019
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #3 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 1:47pm
Print Post  
Top tier is sub 20. So you’re around 20% of DPS. You sure you’re done with that build?
  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


al ca mist
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ZooperDooper
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1205
Joined: Oct 27th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #4 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 2:10pm
Print Post  
the_biggest_dog wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Top tier is sub 20. So you’re around 20% of DPS. You sure you’re done with that build?


Even if I was completely lag free, I doubt I could break 60 on the Boss test, too many of my effect procs have minimal effect on Bosses, and I'm using Daggers so the base without the procs to boost will definitely lag behind.. I think I've pushed my Vistani 'Lock about as far as she can go for now...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 5:51pm
Print Post  
ZooperDooper wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 2:10pm:
Even if I was completely lag free, I doubt I could break 60 on the Boss test, too many of my effect procs have minimal effect on Bosses, and I'm using Daggers so the base without the procs to boost will definitely lag behind.. I think I've pushed my Vistani 'Lock about as far as she can go for now...


Pure lock out of curiousity?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ZooperDooper
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1205
Joined: Oct 27th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #6 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 5:59pm
Print Post  
Edrein wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 5:51pm:
Pure lock out of curiousity?



Yes, Heavy investment into ES, significant Vistani, and some in Tiefling & Tainted
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #7 - Apr 17th, 2019 at 7:18pm
Print Post  
ZooperDooper wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 5:59pm:
Yes, Heavy investment into ES, significant Vistani, and some in Tiefling & Tainted


Fair point. I've been dicking around with Tiefling and Henshin. Managed to make essentially a half-assed fire sorc that doesn't instantly die in the middle of a pack of mobs in reaper and can actually heal the party decent due to healing ki.

Not sure if I'd roll it on live, but it's pretty fun on Lamma.

Edit: Casting Cauldron of Fire on a tiefling actually looks demonic lol.

Highlights include a decent QP, a near no-save Hellball, and a solid mass frog.

Downsides: Absolutely fucking useless in the Sharn raid.
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2019 at 7:23pm by Edrein »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1429
Joined: Jan 14th, 2016
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #8 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 7:34am
Print Post  
ZooperDooper wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 5:59pm:
Yes, Heavy investment into ES, significant Vistani, and some in Tiefling & Tainted



Help me understand what you're going for here.  It looks like you're using the ES burst plus melee for your dps, on a caster class.  I've never played a warlock as other than a caster so this concept is foreign to me.  But ES was the lowest dps of the runs through lock that I've made, by far.  So much so that I've never bothered with it again.

I can see that infernal+tiefling tree has fire spellpower synergy, and I guess you're looking for the fire damage adds to your weapon hits also since that scales with fire spellpower.  And full bab from the ES capstone is nice for attack speed even if you're paying for something a melee gets for free.  But isn't this kind of fighting against itself?  Wouldn't single weapon fighting be better for adding up weapon proc damage since it is so fast?  One burst every 2 secs isn't going to carry your dps.  Or is vistani as fast as swf?  I play casters almost exclusively and haven't run anything using vistani ever, so I'm just assuming that you're using twf+vistani and not swf.

How do you spend your feats on a pure lock who is trying to melee?
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #9 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 1:06pm
Print Post  
Frank wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 7:34am:
Help me understand what you're going for here.  It looks like you're using the ES burst plus melee for your dps, on a caster class.  I've never played a warlock as other than a caster so this concept is foreign to me.  But ES was the lowest dps of the runs through lock that I've made, by far.  So much so that I've never bothered with it again.

I can see that infernal+tiefling tree has fire spellpower synergy, and I guess you're looking for the fire damage adds to your weapon hits also since that scales with fire spellpower.  And full bab from the ES capstone is nice for attack speed even if you're paying for something a melee gets for free.  But isn't this kind of fighting against itself?  Wouldn't single weapon fighting be better for adding up weapon proc damage since it is so fast?  One burst every 2 secs isn't going to carry your dps.  Or is vistani as fast as swf?  I play casters almost exclusively and haven't run anything using vistani ever, so I'm just assuming that you're using twf+vistani and not swf.

How do you spend your feats on a pure lock who is trying to melee?


You'd have to grab the Vistani capstone to really compete with SWF for attack speed.

But he's getting 3d4 light damage on both attacks, vistani being about 100% offhand and depending on your PLs and AP spendature; you're probably looking at about 50-75% doublestrike and 25% offhand doublestrike. So you're hitting upwards of around 200-400 light damage per click. Probably more depending on your gearing. Add in the fire damage per hit from Tiefling once they hit the HP threshholds.

20% HP without having to use epic defensive fighting from the ES capstone. Add on top of that the aura ticks every 2 seconds for all of his EB dice, plus the full fiend dice since nothing will be immune to the fire damage, plus the extra 3d4 + 3d6 light. So you're getting near an extra 1-2k damage per 2 seconds for free.

Feat wise he only needs to take TWF, ITWF, GTWF, and IPC:P. That's 4 of the heroics. I'd then suggest Quicken, Maximize, and Empower for the heroic 7. That makes your ES cleaves deal a good amount of damage, not to mention your Evard's is going to hurt as well.

From the epic levels I'd probably guess: OC, Epic eldritch, Precision, PTWF, Blinding Speed or Intensify, Arcane Warrior, and for his build I'd suggest taking Scion of Fernia for the extra damage on your aura and cleaves, plus the extra fire damage on your melee swings. But everyone has their own taste on the Scion feats.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
the_biggest_dog
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


fuck

Posts: 123
Joined: Mar 7th, 2019
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #10 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 1:25pm
Print Post  
Edrein wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
You'd have to grab the Vistani capstone to really compete with SWF for attack speed.

But he's getting 3d4 light damage on both attacks, vistani being about 100% offhand and depending on your PLs and AP spendature; you're probably looking at about 50-75% doublestrike and 25% offhand doublestrike. So you're hitting upwards of around 200-400 light damage per click. Probably more depending on your gearing. Add in the fire damage per hit from Tiefling once they hit the HP threshholds.

20% HP without having to use epic defensive fighting from the ES capstone. Add on top of that the aura ticks every 2 seconds for all of his EB dice, plus the full fiend dice since nothing will be immune to the fire damage, plus the extra 3d4 + 3d6 light. So you're getting near an extra 1-2k damage per 2 seconds for free.

Feat wise he only needs to take TWF, ITWF, GTWF, and IPC:P. That's 4 of the heroics. I'd then suggest Quicken, Maximize, and Empower for the heroic 7. That makes your ES cleaves deal a good amount of damage, not to mention your Evard's is going to hurt as well.

From the epic levels I'd probably guess: OC, Epic eldritch, Precision, PTWF, Blinding Speed or Intensify, Arcane Warrior, and for his build I'd suggest taking Scion of Fernia for the extra damage on your aura and cleaves, plus the extra fire damage on your melee swings. But everyone has their own taste on the Scion feats.


that's all fine and good but the proof is in the pudding and the build barely gets to 20% of the dps of the usual suspects. Could be user error but VKFlock isn't exactly a DPS machine any way its built
  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


al ca mist
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #11 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:08pm
Print Post  
the_biggest_dog wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 1:25pm:
that's all fine and good but the proof is in the pudding and the build barely gets to 20% of the dps of the usual suspects. Could be user error but VKFlock isn't exactly a DPS machine any way its built


All I did was give a theoretical feat break down.

Vistani isn't quite there for meshing with ES for a DPS build. Or atleast an end game top DPS build.

I was hoping we might see a new universal tree built around another melee weapon type. But frankly, I'd rather the universal trees go back to being universal instead of singularly focused. VKF and Inquisitor, and even Falconry to an extent aren't very universal. They all fit an archtype of playstyles rather than having features any class could make good on.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Digimonk
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline



Posts: 1573
Joined: Apr 7th, 2015
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #12 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:11pm
Print Post  
ZooperDooper wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 11:14am:
DPS Test Kobold - 18.2
DPS Boss Kobold - 89.69

These aren't averages, those were my best.

And this is why friends don't let friends run meleelocks as a serious build.

If you're set on that as your "final" build, cool.  I hope it brings you much happiness.

If you were looking for something effective and useful at endgame in anything above EH, this is terrible and you should keep looking.  If you really do want a good, end-game melee, give up on warlocks and pick a class actually designed to be melee DPS.  An autoattacking Tempest, Kensai or Barb would beat this.

Warlocks sucked at melee DPS from the beginning and have just gotten comparatively worse over the past few years as the nerfs have progressed and powercreep on real DPS classes has increased.

« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:12pm by Digimonk »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #13 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:14pm
Print Post  
Digimonk wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:11pm:
And this is why friends don't let friends run meleelocks as a serious build.

If you're set on that as your "final" build, cool.  I hope it brings you much happiness.

If you were looking for something effective and useful at endgame in anything above EH, this is terrible and you should keep looking.  If you really do want a good, end-game melee, give up on warlocks and pick a class actually designed to be melee DPS. 

Warlocks sucked at melee DPS from the beginning and have just gotten comparatively worse over the past few years as the nerfs have progressed and powercreep on real DPS classes has increased.



The problem here comes from the fact that the dev team was opposed to melee warlocks from the beginning. Things like Hideous Blow, Eldritch Glaives, and Eldritch Claws were brought up frequently and shot down.

My guess is someone cheesed the devs games with melee warlocks in tabletop and they let their nerdrage spill over into design implementation preventing us from experiencing one of the more fun ways to play a warlock. You know; as a melee ranged glass cannon?

Instead we got melee ranged tanks with shit damage. Fair trade? You decide.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1429
Joined: Jan 14th, 2016
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #14 - Apr 18th, 2019 at 11:38pm
Print Post  
Edrein wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 2:14pm:
Instead we got melee ranged tanks with shit damage. Fair trade? You decide.


Kinda a fair trade.  My ES warlock was capable of jumping into the middle of a group of mobs up to around R5 and surviving while the rest of the group caught up, running R3ish comfortably if slowly while solo.  With all the other utility that lock also brings to the table.  And that was kinda fun, but actually killing stuff is more fun.  But I wasn't trying to do melee damage at all, I had zero investment in it from AP or feats or anything.  My pure tank char is even more survivable with less past lives, but it does essentially zero dps and I only play it in groups, so yeah it's a fair trade depending on the environment you run in.

Thanks for the breakdown you did above.  I'm wondering now if a swf build would be better melee dps.  You'd save all the AP from vkf to apply elsewhere and you could use a batter weapon than a dagger, maybe  khopesh.  Feats would be essentially the same just swapping the twf chain for the swf chain.  It'd just cost a lesser for zooper to give it a test, and another to roll back or better yet do something else entirely.  I know it's not something I'll be spending time trying to make suck less.
« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2019 at 11:40pm by Frank »  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #15 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:40am
Print Post  
Frank wrote on Apr 18th, 2019 at 11:38pm:
Kinda a fair trade.  My ES warlock was capable of jumping into the middle of a group of mobs up to around R5 and surviving while the rest of the group caught up, running R3ish comfortably if slowly while solo.  With all the other utility that lock also brings to the table.  And that was kinda fun, but actually killing stuff is more fun.  But I wasn't trying to do melee damage at all, I had zero investment in it from AP or feats or anything.  My pure tank char is even more survivable with less past lives, but it does essentially zero dps and I only play it in groups, so yeah it's a fair trade depending on the environment you run in.

Thanks for the breakdown you did above.  I'm wondering now if a swf build would be better melee dps.  You'd save all the AP from vkf to apply elsewhere and you could use a batter weapon than a dagger, maybe  khopesh.  Feats would be essentially the same just swapping the twf chain for the swf chain.  It'd just cost a lesser for zooper to give it a test, and another to roll back or better yet do something else entirely.  I know it's not something I'll be spending time trying to make suck less.


If you're going SWF you might as well use vistani as well, you just spend less points in vistani compared to TWF.

The extra 20MP from Single Dagger aint too bad. I'd say it arguably puts SWF dagger on part with some options. Though you'll always have outliers such as Knight's Training and Soulrazor.

But Khopesh vs Dagger on that one is a hard sell for me. There aren't enough khopeshes in game with vorpal effects to abuse PSWF. If you don't want to run daggers, don't piss away a feat on Khopeshes. Grab Knight's Training and use one of those weapons, or better yet use scimitars.

But again as Digimonk pointed out; it aint exactly even a B-tier build. Now there are a few things you can do with aura lock melees. The problem is there aint much you can do with a pure warlock. Not with our current selection of universal tree weapon choices.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #16 - May 4th, 2019 at 6:39pm
Print Post  
ZooperDooper wrote on Apr 17th, 2019 at 11:14am:
DPS Boss Kobold - 89.69



For what it's worth; I did a variant of this last night to see how I could shave the time off on your design.

I got it to 82 seconds while running in a suboptimal destiny: Primal Avatar to test a theory.

I've TR'd out of the build as I had other mad designs to test, but I'd imagine you could easily cut that down to sub 70 seconds in a decent destiny as well as throwing out spells you can't use in the dojo such as evards.

You still wouldn't be a B team melee DPS but you would bring a decent amount of utility to a party depending on your AP spending so your mileage would vary. I'd put this about on par with Vistani Warchanter for party utility and overall DPS contribution.

Downside is; you're not innately propping up the actual melee superstars compared to a warchanter.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ioun
Dragon Raider
***
Offline


Daddy don't hurt me.

Posts: 205
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #17 - May 26th, 2019 at 1:14am
Print Post  
What would the build's split happen to look like if you dont mind sharing Grin
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2019 at 1:14am by Ioun »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Edrein
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Master of Melee Undead
(Gimps)

Posts: 1001
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Lam Kobs
Reply #18 - May 29th, 2019 at 5:45am
Print Post  
Ioun wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 1:14am:
What would the build's split happen to look like if you dont mind sharing Grin


There's plenty of notes towards it. Read through the posts. I wouldn't spend more than 25-30AP in vistani, just make sure you get the full 100% offhand chance.

ES is up to you. I definitely suggest you take up to the 18 core, but the capstone is also more passive boosts. (Mostly you'll be wanting to take the ES core if you care about aura damage, as you can't use any blast shape with Epic Defensive Fighting because fuck ES warlocks I guess? God forbid they spend the 4 feats required for that extra 5% HP bonus compared to their capstone on an already melee ranged spellcaster hybrid.)

If you are playing Normal Tiefling you need to manage 16 racial AP for the fire invul removal/Arcane Warrior charging (if you go that route feat wise). 14 of which can be obtained by racial competitionist and tomes.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint