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Normal Topic So did we come out ahead with XP or not? (Read 3136 times)
Skoodge
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So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Aug 15th, 2019 at 10:11pm
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Kind of curious where it landed after all the last minute tweaks. 

Reaper XP looks like the clear winner with an obvious boost and extended level range (which I'm not really thrilled about the PMs I'm going to start getting from idiots 4 levels higher than me wanting in my reaper groups).

Is base heroic XP up or down now?  First time through, not repeat runs.  Can't remember if it was in chat or on one of the forums that I read heroic XP took a hit. 

Multiple runs in epics seems to be slightly ahead over all, if you don't count the hits the dailies took.  It looks like I might get a smidge more XP while running sagas - but most epic quests outside of the dailies still seem to have mostly shit for XP.

And you can get bonuses for chains twice, which will let an Iconic just rocket through a life, so that's a win for our side - but what about a normal, epic 1st time reaper bonus?  Did we come out ahead or take a hit?

Bonus question - were the fucking dailies really getting that much hate on the motherboards?  I log in once a monthish and I know a couple times of years you'd seen someone whining about it - but I personally never saw nearly as many "death to BB" posts as I did "Boohoo, I can't run reaper," "IK is OP," or "why do you hate melees" posts.

Was public opinion that strong against it that it required this contrived of a solution?  Because on my giant list of "100 things DDO needs to fix", BB was not included.
  

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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #1 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 6:23am
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I haven't really looked closely at it yet, as I've been extra busy with work and family.  With regards to your last point, I'd say no.  There wasn't a HUGE outcry to nerf dailies.  As you said, it gets brought up every once in a while and dies down again.  Probably because it's the way the game has always been - some quests award great XP, most award crap. 

I'm a fan of the concept, though.  I prefer running a variety of content over a handful of quests that actually give decent rewards.  I can only run VoN so many goddam times...  we'll see if they balanced the numbers properly.   My instinct, given their track record, is that they almost certainly didn't.

I like the Reaper changes on paper. 

Just reading about it, with no real feel in-game yet, I give these changes an A-.
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #2 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 6:26am
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They emptied my bravery bonus so it's hard to tell not as not bothered to build it back up. A first-run VON3 (not because it's a "daily" but because I've enjoyed it since launch) on Epic was definitely worse, but I expect with a restored bonus it would've been decent.

The optionals to 0xp is bullshit though and must mean that certain playstyles end up worse off. Which has long been the case for this game: fundamentally misunderstanding the attraction most people had to D&D in the first place which is working it out and playing it your way. Apparently the only way to play is the correct way, their way. Cretins.
  
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Skoodge
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #3 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 7:10am
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kum-gulp wrote on Aug 16th, 2019 at 6:26am:
fundamentally misunderstanding the attraction most people had to D&D in the first place which is working it out and playing it your way.


That actually reminded me of a Wil Wheaton quote in ToEE of all things.  Something along the lines that a good DM will always say 'yes' no matter what a player wants to try.  A good DM will make it work.

Someone should track down the quote and tattoo it to Jerry's head so Sev has to read it daily.
  

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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #4 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 7:39am
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Skoodge wrote on Aug 16th, 2019 at 7:10am:
Someone should track down the quote and tattoo it to Jerry's head so Sev has to read it daily.

Sev doesn't even acknowledge him in interviews with basic eye contact when speaking with him.
  

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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #5 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 8:17am
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Didnt you read the mobos? There is no more xp in the game
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #6 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 8:21am
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kum-gulp wrote on Aug 16th, 2019 at 6:26am:
They emptied my bravery bonus so it's hard to tell not as not bothered to build it back up. .


They said they removed the "build up bravery bonus/streak to 5 quests" as a mechanic, unless I misread.

Quote:
Bravery Streak for both Hard and Elite is now Hard Dungeons Completed and Elite Dungeons Completed.  Bravery streaks will no longer end; they won’t have a chance for ending, you won’t need to turn off your streak, and you can freely play at any difficulty without the count resetting. The bravery streak bonus will be moved into the standard bravery bonus at its full value. We will still track how many times you finish hard and elite dungeons in the UI, but you are no longer required to playing 5 dungeons in a row at a specific difficulty to build a streak.

  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #7 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 10:05am
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Yup streak bonus removed with bravery boosted to compensate - you no longer need to build a streak for max xp
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #8 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 10:41am
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If you run heroics in the form of 1 quest on E or R1+ and then move on - pretty much the same.
If you run heroics and run R-E-H or H-E-R of quests you are losing around 4-6% of the XP.   Not a large amount, but it's something.   If the average quest is 30k for all 3 runs combined you will be getting 28.5k on all 3 runs combined now.   
If you run epics in the form of 1 quest on EH, EE or R1+ then you will be gaining about 4-6% of the XP.
If you run epics in the EH-EE-R1 (or some other order) you are the same XP as before.  No difference.
If you run epics and mainly grind dailies, then you are losing a lot on optionals.   After 8 runs of each quest, you need to run different dailies (prefrrably ones that rely less on optionals and more on base XP) or run some other quests or slayer areas until you ER, which will reset your optionals ransack counter.      

Question:  How much did most people get from a standard circuit of dailies?

1x Von3, Von4, Spies, TTT, Wiz King, Grim, Mirror, etc?   With full pot on, I think I was pulling around 1 million.  I could be wrong.  I wasn't paying that close of attention.  With the optionals decay after the 3rd run, It still seems like you will still be able to get most of the way to cap with 8 cycles.  Thoughts?
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #9 - Aug 18th, 2019 at 11:16am
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Skoodge wrote on Aug 16th, 2019 at 7:10am:
That actually reminded me of a Wil Wheaton quote in ToEE of all things.  Something along the lines that a good DM will always say 'yes' no matter what a player wants to try.  A good DM will make it work.

Someone should track down the quote and tattoo it to Jerry's head so Sev has to read it daily.

Wouldn't putting it on a belt buckle serve that purpose better?
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #10 - Aug 18th, 2019 at 12:47pm
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Meursault wrote on Aug 18th, 2019 at 11:16am:
Wouldn't putting it on a belt buckle serve that purpose better?

fucking ooof! Murdered that man's whole career
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #11 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 4:27pm
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Asheras wrote on Aug 16th, 2019 at 10:41am:
Question:  How much did most people get from a standard circuit of dailies?

1x Von3, Von4, Spies, TTT, Wiz King, Grim, Mirror, etc?   With full pot on, I think I was pulling around 1 million.  I could be wrong.  I wasn't paying that close of attention.  With the optionals decay after the 3rd run, It still seems like you will still be able to get most of the way to cap with 8 cycles.  Thoughts?


the crying over the optional XP going away is such a silly thing for these morons to fixate on.

You'll get 4 runs per life at almost all the XP of the dailies.

Being VIP and running 50% pot, the optionals in Spies is about 36k EXP.  After 4 runs it goes down a little.  If you needed 8 cycles before... now with the optional XP decaying to nothing on the cycle, this means to make up for the lost optional XP over 8 runs, you need to run Spies ONE MORE time to make up all the optional XP you lost with the decay.
That's 9 minutes of time.

Wiz King gets hit the worst since their is more optional XP than actual quest XP.. .so stop running it after 6 times. (even with 60% optional there, with a full party it's fast enough to complete.)

Grimm's Optional are pretty bad to begin with.

two-toed tobias has the one that is about 15 to 20K.... not getting that full optional XP 4 times per life = running TTT one MORE time.

Essentially all of these come down to: run the quest ONE more time getting zero XP for the optionals, but the main quest XP will more than make up for the lost optional XP.

  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #12 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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bob the builder wrote on Aug 19th, 2019 at 4:27pm:
the crying over the optional XP going away is such a silly thing for these morons to fixate on.

You'll get 4 runs per life at almost all the XP of the dailies.

Being VIP and running 50% pot, the optionals in Spies is about 36k EXP.  After 4 runs it goes down a little.  If you needed 8 cycles before... now with the optional XP decaying to nothing on the cycle, this means to make up for the lost optional XP over 8 runs, you need to run Spies ONE MORE time to make up all the optional XP you lost with the decay.
That's 9 minutes of time.

Wiz King gets hit the worst since their is more optional XP than actual quest XP.. .so stop running it after 6 times. (even with 60% optional there, with a full party it's fast enough to complete.)

Grimm's Optional are pretty bad to begin with.

two-toed tobias has the one that is about 15 to 20K.... not getting that full optional XP 4 times per life = running TTT one MORE time.

Essentially all of these come down to: run the quest ONE more time getting zero XP for the optionals, but the main quest XP will more than make up for the lost optional XP.


Oh, great, so not only does it suck for those of us not running dailies, it also doesn't have much impact on the one thing it was specifically implemented to stop?!

Fucking morons.

  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #13 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 4:51pm
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I do think it affects those those that don't have 50% pots... they'll have to run other quests.

I haven't tried to level from 20 to 30 with a 50% XP in years, so maybe it will slow down those people.  And those are probably the people who whine the most about being the "have nots" and how this puts more distance between them and the 1%.

But fuck'em.  they need to git gud.  Smiley
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #14 - Aug 20th, 2019 at 8:29am
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Meursault wrote on Aug 18th, 2019 at 11:16am:
Wouldn't putting it on a belt buckle serve that purpose better?


Nice. Does anyone know if there is real beef, or is it just because Jerry is a vagina and Sev knows it?
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #15 - Aug 20th, 2019 at 8:53am
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Well, I just did my fastest tr. So its either better or about the same
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #16 - Aug 20th, 2019 at 12:07pm
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johnnyonthespot wrote on Aug 20th, 2019 at 8:29am:
Nice. Does anyone know if there is real beef, or is it just because Jerry is a vagina and Sev knows it?

I actually have no idea, I was just going for the cheap dick joke laughs  Undecided
  

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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #17 - Aug 20th, 2019 at 12:53pm
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goldgolem wrote on Aug 20th, 2019 at 8:53am:
Well, I just did my fastest tr. So its either better or about the same

How long did it take you compared to a previous life?  Were you running the same difficulty in both lives?
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #18 - Aug 20th, 2019 at 1:57pm
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Normally a 6 hour pot takes me to lvl 8 soloing r1 on a warlock. This time I hit lvl 12
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #19 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 11:29pm
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bob the builder wrote on Aug 19th, 2019 at 4:51pm:
I do think it affects those those that don't have 50% pots... they'll have to run other quests.

I haven't tried to level from 20 to 30 with a 50% XP in years, so maybe it will slow down those people.  And those are probably the people who whine the most about being the "have nots" and how this puts more distance between them and the 1%.

But fuck'em.  they need to git gud.  Smiley

This is a somewhat reductive and elitist statement.

The point most people are making is that there shouldn't be a massive gulf between the haves and have-nots, or the perception that it's not feasible to run 20-30 (the real issue here) without +50% pots.

Mostly because the people who have them either duped the shit out of them or have a lot of  disposable income to burn (or their parents do).

I personally don't care much, but I ran dailies specifically becauee I hate epic content and would rather do anything than run MotU or ToEE content. I only grudgingly run Mirror and WGU. I'm fully capable of zerging the shit out of any and all content... I just don't want to.

This XP change railroads people into having to run EE/Rx to achieve optimal results, which actually slows TRs for many people, since the 2x Normal dailies were faster XP.

I can't see a reality where the is doesn't hurt their bottom line, since my answer is "Well, I guess those Iconic lives I was gonna do are gonna happen never. Back to racial TRs..." and I'm certain I am not the only one who feels that way. And now I can get good reaper XP and free TP grinding heroics so fuck it.

What I find even more hilarious is that if they were targeting  dailies as "over-performing" then they missed the memo that people are burning Slayer and XP pots to skip content as well. Or maybe they don't care because they figure that's generating revenue with pot sales (even though I can't remember the last time I've purchased anything from the store with actual money).
  

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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 9:07am
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I did have a typo in my statement... left out a "out".  I haven't tried running 20-30 withOUT burning 50% pots.

And there was a smiley face on the post... i.e. I wasn't serious about that answer.

(but they should learn to get better.  If you are working towards a full completionist by running ERs over and over, then you should probably try to get better.

If you hate Epic Content then why are you playing the game, and trying to get all those past lives.  If all you intend to do is run Heroic level quests, then you definitely don't need to be a quad-triple completionist or even a single completionist.

And you listed only MOTU as epic content and TOEE.  Here's a hint... no one runs TOEE to get get XP for the 20-30 grind.

There's a point where someone wanting to get all the Epic past lives that you would think they would want to get better so they can run EE and Epic R1 almost as fast as a Hard run.   If that isn't a skill level you are shooting at then I don't see why you would be striving to get all the past live feats.   What? You want to be even more overpowered in Epic NOrmal and Epic Hard quests?!?!



  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #21 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 1:40pm
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bob the builder wrote on Aug 26th, 2019 at 9:07am:
And you listed only MOTU as epic content and TOEE.  Here's a hint... no one runs TOEE to get get XP for the 20-30 grind.

Ran R4 TOEE1 in 21 min with 4 capped toons and a 24 sorc: 5300 RXP with a 30% pot + VIP, and 266k epic XP.
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #22 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 4:55pm
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Carpone wrote on Aug 26th, 2019 at 1:40pm:
Ran R4 TOEE1 in 21 min with 4 capped toons and a 24 sorc: 5300 RXP with a 30% pot + VIP, and 266k epic XP.

Is that with FTB?  If so, that's bad RXP/min.

5300 RXP / 21 min = 252 RXP/min

The daily RXP missions can usually be done in about 10 minutes >R4 skull setting and will net the same or maybe more RXP.
  
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Re: So did we come out ahead with XP or not?
Reply #23 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 7:04pm
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Yes that's FTB and yeah it's bad RXP/min.  Did it to help a friend and was curious how the RXP was.  Won't be doing it again for RXP.
  
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