Since it came up on the mobos, added easy improvements for hires (summery of the other post really) and collectables to the second post.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 9:09am:


I'd like to think overall even us cynics here on the vault felt like Ravenloft was a good expansion and a general improving direction for the game.

Sharn is one of those, "What the actual fuck were you thinking?" deals.

Edrein wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 11:53am:


RL was great.  RL was amazing.  RL moved me from just logging back in and running a few heroic lives for the hell of it to playing the game a year longer than I expected it to.  I dropped a hundred bucks, picked up all the packs I missed and the new expansion and had more hope for the game than I'd had since 2010.

I dropped another 100 bucks at the beginning of this year to grab the Sharn expansion (people with foreign addresses seem to have trouble using the web page store) and have felt like I've been getting shit on non-stop by the devs since.

RL kept me in the game, everything since has made me realize my money is better spent on Triple A games.

Shinyshoes wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 4:48pm:


I agree.  More RL content would be very welcome.

Justanotherlurker wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 5:05am:


Because no one there understands supply and demand economics and they're stingy as fuck.

This comes back to my ribbon candy analogy.  They literally have an unlimited supply of certain resources, yet are afraid to give away a pennies worth of something that doesn't sell because they think it will lose them a pennies sale later on down the road.

I can forgive them for wanting to charge triple A prices for an obviously not triple A game - but they don't even follow the sales of triple A games.  When you buy the deluxe package from a triple A game, it's packed to the gills - and usually includes actual physical merchandise with it.

What do they offer?  Usually a hire and a cosmetic and a handful of crap.  Even on the forums most people that buy the highest tier sales admit they're basically doing it out of charity to keep the game running - but even then Turbine still wants to break the ribbon candy in two and call it a bonuses.

The whales are going to buy everything no matter what.  You don't aim the sales or the packaging at the whales.  You aim it at the people who normally wouldn't be inclined to make that purchase and it has to be tempting as hell.  The premium packaging (really the top two tiers) should include and ottos box.

"But we'll lose money later" the idiots cry.

No you FUCKING won't if you have a fucking clue how to market.  You have an unlimited supply.  An experienced player can eat up an Ottos box every 3 days.  If they have them they can easily use over 100 a year.  You only offer them for a limited time so it absolutely will NOT hurt sales if you 'give' one away for a fucking 130 dollar package that does not include 130 dollars worth of merchandise.

Time out your sales where there is a few month gap between.  Ottos, new expansion, Ottos.  The whales are going to continue to buy an Ottos every time you release them, regardless of 'giving' one away in a package - but you'll see more of your casual players and non-whales willing to spend more money on the game.

I swear these people have never seen a commercial in their lives.  Things sell when advertised as 'a 300 dollar value for ONLY 129 dollars.'  'ALMOST a 129 dollar value for only 129 dollars' is a stupid as fuck tactic.

I thought that the RL and Sharn packages were flawed because they were not making packages that appealed to their individual audience segments.

You have, generally speaking, two groups they were trying to target:

Power/meta gamers who want to buy progressions and speed ups  (ottos, tomes, xp pots, etc)

Cosmetics/QoL gamers who want to buy pets, outfits, weapon glammers, cloaks, etc. 

Then they had global items that appeal to everyone (Iconic races, Quick travel clickies, etc)

But they mashed all of these together in one purchase bundle.   So the power gamers felt top option was light on features (because they don't really want half the items).  The QoL cosmetics folks felt the same way.   And then the people who just want the global stuff really felt it was overpriced.   The only people who were happy were the small venn diagram cross section that wants the progression/speed ups, the global stuff, AND the cosmetics and pets and such.   But that's a very small segment of your audience for the expansion.

Better to have:

Base purchase + Globals  (Quit making people who just want the iconic/race pay for more stuff than needed.  Put it in the $40 expansion price point.   Itemize it later when doing DDO points if you want, but in the market bundle, don't make them go get a bigger bundle than they want).

Base Purchase + Globals + power stuff  (more than what was offered in Sharn/RL because you took out the cosmetic stuff and replace with more progression stuff)

Base Purchase _ Globals _ Cosmetic/QoL stuff  (again, more than offered in Sharn/RL because you yanked out tomes and such)

Master Pack with Globals, Power, Cosmetic/QoL Stuff

Maybe not that EXACTLY.   But something like that.   Know your audience.  Target your offerings.  Even with 3 tiers it still felt like a one size fits all offering set.

Asheras wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:27am:

Keep in mind who the "Brand Manager" (Marketing Manager) is. To my knowledge, she has absolutely ZERO Marketing experience and the sales (their frequency or infrequency, the order in which they're offered, or even what's put on sale/size of the discounts) painfully reflect that.

They should have kept her as the Community Manager. She sure as hell is no good in her current position.

Asheras wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:27am:

That's the thing that triggers me. It feels like they don't even gaf. Like, how hard is it to come up with a few packages for your expansion? This goes well beyond incompetence and into either laziness and apathy at best, to downright disdain at worst.

Technomage wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:46am:


I'm honestly surprised Tolero even made it on the ship to SSG in the first place.

What exactly has she done for Turbine as a whole across all the years she's worked there?

Edit: I know her various titles and positions. I mean what the fuck has she literally done?

Edrein wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:


Someone has to set up the pacman LARP.

raybob wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 7:25pm:

5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 9^th, 2019 at 9:11am:


The BBB ranking is not that big a deal

They are supposed to be an independent arbiter between businesses and consumers.  Yet they seek to generate revenue from selling their accreditation services to businesses.   That;s a classic conflict of interest.

There are numerous examples where the BBB has changed D or F rankings to A when the organization starts paying dues.  And vice versa.  When they stop paying dues, their ranking drops from A to D or F.   

https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/beverly-hills/profile/pizza/spago-1216-13164383

You think Wolfgang Puck's Spago in Beverly Hills is a poorly run business?   Or just one that doesn't play the BBB game or use the BBB arbitration services to resolve customer complaints?   

My company does not pay for BBB accreditation or use their services either.   

Did anyone here check the BBB ranking for any game company before deciding to purchase or play a game?  I haven't done it ever.   And I've purchased hundreds of games.