Cripey wrote on Sep 1^st, 2019 at 2:09pm:

LOL, you've got 3 in the top 100, do you not see the competitive advantage of store purchases?

The pay to win talk on the HC server is just sour grapes by people who are either not participating or are salty over their own deaths.

Sure you can give yourself some minor advantages with some store purchases, but it's pretty small.  If you get to 10 or 20 Reaper AP or get to 5000 favor without a death, then you put in some game time and played well.   

Asheras wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 1:08pm:

LOL. Or, you know, the fucking pay store? If you want a real, hardcore, league. Go play POE. DDO league is cash grab fund raising. Let's not pretend deeply here

Asheras wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 2:43pm:


I mean.

Bells are pretty p2w especially on a non-rogue/arti. Gold seals? Yea easily p2w as you can have multitudes of hires active. People buying tomes are either the dumber p2w players, or the really really loaded ones.

The smarter p2w would buy gold seal healing pots, xp pots, Death ward augments etc.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 2:40pm:

Yeah, this is what I thought when I heard the announcement and I was seriously considering subbing to give it a try. Not for my whole family, just a month or two for me. I chose not to, and I'm over it, I've got plenty else to do.

Mostly now I'm just using the hardcore P2W argument as a shibboleth, it tells me a lot about people. Not is it net good, bad, or indifferent, I see a lot of valid arguments on all sides, just about if it exists or not.

And for the record, if they have to get their money by P2W, I'd much rather they do it in a somewhat isolated venue like this than by introducing a new OP class or system, I can simply opt not to join in and it has no effect on my game play. If they introduce a new OP whatever and then scale up the difficulty to preserve the challenge for people who bought it, my game is harder and less fun. This way people might take that alt they spent all that money on and keep playing it, increasing the demand to make alts more viable. Plus it buys them another year to realize they need to focus on quality and content over flash and squeeze.

Asheras wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 2:43pm:

Says the store sells things other than p2w, then proceeds to list a bunch of p2w things as proof.  LOL. 

I don't think you understand what p2w means.  It's simple.  Since you can't seem to figure it out on your own, I'll help.  Varying degrees of p2w are STILL p2w...

Anything that provides an in-game advantage to your character that can be purchased with $$/points is p2w, regardless of whether or not the same items could be farmed.  When you buy it with money (the pay part), you paid for the advantage (the win part).  If nothing else, you're paying to shortcut the grind.

Most cosmetics and pets are not p2w as they don't provide any in-game benefit.  Almost everything is to some degree p2w. 

Bank space might be debatable, but even then, having 200 shared bank space slots to hoard up a bunch of RNG gear for your new HC toons still gives you an advantage over someone with the default amount of slots so even that's probably still p2w.

Anyone who says you can't drop $$ on a bundle of points and gain a significant advantage with p2w stuff in the in-game store over people who don't, especially on the HC server is just full of shit.

Stat and skill tomes, XP pots (moar RXP!), better heal pots, spell point pots, long lasting stat and buff pots, etc. etc.  On barebones newbie toons with shit gear, those are a HUGE advantage.

Digimonk wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 5:26pm:



My dawg. I think Ash is saying there's no "w" in this case. It's just "p2." Varying degrees of not "w"ing are STILL not "w"ing.

But, I missed a lot of context. Were we talking Casual through Hard? Cuz I can see some W there.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 5:36pm:



If you think those give a huge advantage you are drunk.

I was excited and hoping to see  good competition on hardcore for the reaper leader boards from the vault, instead we put p2w on the complaint list leader board of the vault ;/

Sorry to interrupt the tears, on with your show!

Asheras wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 6:06pm:

800 hp bag that self heals and displaces, at lv 15, is better than any hireling in the game. Except for the robot barbarian in Korthos

Digimonk wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 5:26pm:


You clearly aren't actually playing on the HC server.   

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 6:11pm:


Nerf Byron Scoutsword!   Seriously.  He and Eleri can clear Korthos and the Harbor while you pike the quests.  Which is nice.   You can start with 200 or so easy peasy favor before he starts going down like panties on prom night.  He is pretty useless on elite past level 3.  Also, he has no Ghost Touch weapon so don't bring him to a reaper party.   He's barely a speed bump at 57 HP.

The level 15, or the scare crow at 10, have the HP to send into a crowd to draw some aggro and gather melee mobs to nuke.  Sure.  If used properly, they can have value.    They are great for pulling levers and opening doors while you stand back a ways too.  I'm not saying they are useless.  But I certainly prefer a human party member.  Having friends in game > hirelings.   To be sure.

Asheras wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 6:28pm:


Well it's still only a hireling. Not going to compete with real players. Was only pointing out how the pay for hires are better statistically and mechanically than regular hires. Which it should be, since they are charging for them. The store sells items which are bought for an advantage. The entire premise of even having the store up put me off of playing in league. Doesn't mean people can't have fun and enjoy playing there, or that nothing can be accomplished without the store.