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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Devs head up his own arse (Read 12807 times)
Technomage
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #75 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:25pm
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Asheras wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:09pm:
There is nothing wrong with a rogue GXB build.  They perform very well and can contribute in any group on any difficulty.  The feature you mention is more useful in soloing/shortmannng or 6 man questing with non-optimized party.   It's got little to no value in raids or optimized parties where the CC is not reliant on a roll of 19/20.   It's the same thing as Wind through the Trees.   A nice feature, but not one you are incorporating into a min/max optimal build.

The optimized rogue GXB build for raiding and optimal R8-R10 groups just doesn't perform nearly as well as the optimal inquis build.

I agree that Inquisitive WAY outclasses Mechanics with GXBs in boss fights. That's not even a question.

I'm coming from the PoV that Boss fights aren't the only fights that matter in DDO.
  

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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #76 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:29pm
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Technomage wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:03pm:
The Knockdown effect from GXB is quite valuable, especially when you can do it on rolls of 20 AND 19 when using the Mechanic tree.

Not sure how to factor that in when comparing with Inquisitive.

It's a 5% chance at a knockdown vs great crossbow's 10%.

The bolts off of a great crossbow are 7.5W at 2d8 +2 each. A superior critical profile with a multiplier that will give the biggest crit per bolt. A rogue with the 18th level mech core using NHB and a great crossbow can probably outburst other dual crossbow inquisitive builds, but it is not by much. The doubleshot rate of fire and Law dice cover up for the lower critical profile and base damage that they become close in burst dps when using NHB, but fall behind when not.

« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:30pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #77 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:39pm
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Asheras wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:17pm:
First, nobody spends 100 hours going 1-30.  Be serious.   You can do 1-30 in about 24/25 hours.   With what players have available.    

Second, You think they actually need to earn XP to level when testing?   Do you think they have to gear grind too?   And use a heart of wood to respec?

Come on.   They can be any level with any set of feats/skills/enhancements and any gear they need at any time.

Also, as we have discussed, nobody cares how a build performs at level 7 in Gwylan's Stand or level 14 in GH or Orchard.   They aren't balancing for smooth curves from 1-30.   (sure they spend some time on it, but it's not the core focus) They care about how easy it is to get into a build initially (how long does it take to get your stat to hit/damage, for instance) and gating key features past level 12/18/20, but that is mainly to control multi-classing and less about smooth leveling curves.   The balancing is all focused on end game.   


If you want to properly play-test something as impactful as a new tree, then absolutely you run multiple levels actually playing the build.  You play it in a wide variety of content, facing a wide variety of encounters all the way up.

Or you can just be really half-assed about it, check a few things at a few levels, and stamp it out the door approved like SSG does.

If you give a shit about your game, you'll give a shit about how builds play at all levels in all content, including level 7 in Gwylan's.  This isn't a hobby, it's a business.  The game is your product.  Take it seriously.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #78 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:03pm
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I’m honestly quite curious about what an optimal inquisitive would do.

Wfb’s test had a 14 ranger split with poor gear doing 20k without no holds barred and is currently the only level 30 dps test that I know of.

Slap some actual gear on it and grab more rogue or fighter levels and and I’m pretty sure the numbers would be/are stunning
« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:05pm by acidpickachu »  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #79 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:55pm
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acidpickachu wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:03pm:
I’m honestly quite curious about what an optimal inquisitive would do.

Wfb’s test had a 14 ranger split with poor gear doing 20k without no holds barred and is currently the only level 30 dps test that I know of.

Slap some actual gear on it and grab more rogue or fighter levels and and I’m pretty sure the numbers would be/are stunning

I have a 18/2 Volley test in SD on a first lifer doing 16 seconds. Tier 5 Inquisitive with capstone, KTA, Mech core 18.



That was WITHOUT Dark Imbuement or Uncanny Dodge clicky. With those 2 boosts I think I can break 13 seconds for 40K+ DPS.

To even come close to that I have to build fully kobold racing spec melees. Considering that the AP on ranged builds, especially something like 18/2, is much more streamlined than it would be for melees.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #80 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 4:35pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
I have a 18/2 Volley test in SD on a first lifer doing 16 seconds. Tier 5 Inquisitive with capstone, KTA, Mech core 18.

https://i.imgur.com/pczEswx.png

That was WITHOUT Dark Imbuement or Uncanny Dodge clicky. With those 2 boosts I think I can break 13 seconds for 40K+ DPS.

To even come close to that I have to build fully kobold racing spec melees. Considering that the AP on ranged builds, especially something like 18/2, is much more streamlined than it would be for melees. 


Yea. That’s about what I’d figure. Do want to see how my second lifer compares once I cap it. It’s already blowing away anything in party that isn’t either another inquisitive or a really really fucking good player. It took my racial comp assassin a dust swap and some good luck to hit 16 seconds in a live setup. And even then I took twists I probably wouldn’t if I was doin Lh real content.

Leveling my second life inquisitive, 23 reaper point alt with a 75 reaper point guildy doing a melee bard on a multipletionist toon. At best he keeps even, and at worst it’s just pointless for him to even bother. From what I saw at cap I doubt much changes at endgame.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #81 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 5:12pm
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acidpickachu wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 4:35pm:
Yea. That’s about what I’d figure. Do want to see how my second lifer compares once I cap it. It’s already blowing away anything in party that isn’t either another inquisitive or a really really fucking good player. It took my racial comp assassin a dust swap and some good luck to hit 16 seconds in a live setup. And even then I took twists I probably wouldn’t if I was doin Lh real content.

Leveling my second life inquisitive, 23 reaper point alt with a 75 reaper point guildy doing a melee bard on a multipletionist toon. At best he keeps even, and at worst it’s just pointless for him to even bother. From what I saw at cap I doubt much changes at endgame.

It gets even better on DPS past lives with a better filigree swap and Sneak of Shadows. Vincio put up a 8.8 in SD.

He and Aria are doing stupid dps on druid past life template. A fucking druid past life template build is doing top tier DPS in high skull end game. Steelstar is just chilling now that Mass passed legal weed.
« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2019 at 5:13pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #82 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 5:38pm
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crsm3423 wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
If you want to properly play-test something as impactful as a new tree, then absolutely you run multiple levels actually playing the build.  You play it in a wide variety of content, facing a wide variety of encounters all the way up.

Or you can just be really half-assed about it, check a few things at a few levels, and stamp it out the door approved like SSG does.

If you give a shit about your game, you'll give a shit about how builds play at all levels in all content, including level 7 in Gwylan's.  This isn't a hobby, it's a business.  The game is your product.  Take it seriously.


I'm not saying they don't play test it in a variety of content and levels during development.  There was nothing in the Steelstar post to suggest that the 100 hours was the sum of all testing ever done on the universal tree since inception.  I'm sure they did detailed testing of the build at a wide variety of levels and in a wide variety of content before release.   

After release, if there are reports of it overperforming at certain points, they can certainly target those where the reports are.   Your comments about how long it takes to go 1-30 were just nonsensical in that regard.  (and flat wrong) 
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #83 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 6:38pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
13 seconds for 40K+ DPS.

To even come close to that I have to build fully kobold racing spec melees

For reference : a purely kobold spec Tempest using Razor and the battle ax for vacuum. Largely unplayable in anything past ee/r1. 15.8 seconds.



Same debuffs of dust/vacuum/suffering. Ranged test was dust/vacuum/shattered set. All on first life characters. So why would I melee when I can do top tier dps at range, with the dps uptime of ranged attacks.

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #84 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 8:09pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
That was WITHOUT Dark Imbuement or Uncanny Dodge clicky. With those 2 boosts I think I can break 13 seconds for 40K+ DPS.

To even come close to that I have to build fully kobold racing spec melees. Considering that the AP on ranged builds, especially something like 18/2, is much more streamlined than it would be for melees. 


What does Uncanny Dodge do to your DPS? I get having it for Dodge and Reflex, but how does it improve the DPS?
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #85 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 9:31am
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NOTpopejubal wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 8:09pm:
What does Uncanny Dodge do to your DPS?

There's filigree set with 50 ranged power on Uncanny activation.

Someone just posted r10 Sub and Mists. Mouse clicking and keyboard turning gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXjjCV8tIuE&t=522s

Quest times better than top notch r10 party before this shit was released lol.

My tardquisitor does like double deeps of any barbie, kensei or wolf I tried. And that's not counting ips.

How can they write shit about "tests" and "balance" with a "straight face".
« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2019 at 9:35am by Wipe »  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #86 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 10:41am
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acidpickachu wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 11:16am:
I’d ask to have what you’re smoking, but I live in a state where it’s legal.

So just. Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....You high?


Everyone agrees that Inquisitive is great DPS. So...you're probably just underestimating optimized shuriken?
  

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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #87 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 11:20am
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Wipe wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 9:31am:
There's filigree set with 50 ranged power on Uncanny activation.

Someone just posted r10 Sub and Mists. Mouse clicking and keyboard turning gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXjjCV8tIuE&t=522s

Quest times better than top notch r10 party before this shit was released lol.

My tardquisitor does like double deeps of any barbie, kensei or wolf I tried. And that's not counting ips.

How can they write shit about "tests" and "balance" with a "straight face".

a hundred hours. and great crossbow mechs can do the same.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #88 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 12:48pm
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So, it seems irrelevant whether I do 18/2arti or 15/4arti/1barb for a quick rogue PL.

Prolly go with 2nd for run speed.
  

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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #89 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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Mokune wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 12:48pm:
So, it seems irrelevant whether I do 18/2arti or 15/4arti/1barb for a quick rogue PL.

Prolly go with 2nd for run speed.


pretty much.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #90 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 2:26pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 10:41am:
Everyone agrees that Inquisitive is great DPS. So...you're probably just underestimating optimized shuriken?


I’ve seen optimized shrukens around Ghallanda. Haven’t seen any of them compare to INQ.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #91 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 3:33pm
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Mokune wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 12:48pm:
So, it seems irrelevant whether I do 18/2arti or 15/4arti/1barb for a quick rogue PL.

Prolly go with 2nd for run speed.


18/1/x ... Rogue/Barb/(Monk or Fighter for feat)

Screw Runearms ... other ways to break DR than being a pussy.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #92 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 5:02pm
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I thought BBN/MNK was not possible any more.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #93 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 5:29pm
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So steel said in discord that they don’t look at reaper when buildingibquisitive.

It suddenly makes a lot more sense. Mobs do virtually no damage, mobs have no hp so everything is a 1-shot. The most OP build is the one that can run the fastest.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #94 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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acidpickachu wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 5:29pm:
So steel said in discord that they don’t look at reaper when buildingibquisitive.

It suddenly makes a lot more sense. Mobs do virtually no damage, mobs have no hp so everything is a 1-shot. The most OP build is the one that can run the fastest.

well at least they have the same run speed as a great crossbow mech
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #95 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
well at least they have the same run speed as a great crossbow mech


Sounds like balance to me.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #96 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:40pm
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so why did they nerf wolves?
  

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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #97 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:42pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:40pm:
so why did they nerf wolves?


Because wolf runspeed was just too good.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #98 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 7:11pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:40pm:
so why did they nerf wolves?


Run speed is the best part of Wolf.
  
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Re: Devs head up his own arse
Reply #99 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 7:23pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:40pm:
so why did they nerf wolves?

Then how would Steelstar gaslight you with "100 hours of specific balancing", "no evidence that it beats great crossbow mechs", and "need in quest data".

The in quest data vs a great xbow mech, was the best trolling I have ever seen in my life. The guy is obviously playing on a server where there is a great xbow mech left.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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