NOTpopejubal wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 9:06pm:


Same. I'm not seeing it. You're going to have to be a barbarian to consistently get above 300% (3 targets) on strikethrough.

But cleaves being able to doublestrike does help make up for the literal AoE nerf with losing glancing blows X target potential.

Carpone wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 6:03pm:


Their original idea for what constitutes proper AoE was so retarded that anything decent in comparison becomes YUUUUGEE

Teth wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 2:22pm:


There are going to be some absolutely INCREDIBLE melee characters on each server.

...but it's still only going to be a half dozen total per server  (maybe 8 or 9 per server on the biggest raiding servers) because most melee are absolute shit and you have to get in with the enemies to make those hits, so most melee characters are either going to charge in and die immediately or wait for the Mass Hold to hit and then who gives a crap if the damage is better because everything is already held.

Why are they so butt fucking dumb about paladins fuck.

NOTpopejubal wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 4:26pm:

I'm only speaking for me so ignore if you only want to know Cripey's opinion.

Paladins are great in v3.5 and Pathfinder because their Smites were awesome.

In DDO, smites are virtually meaningless. Either make smites super awesome to help deal out some REALLY substantial burst DPS or drop them completely and make some REAL improvements on sustained DPS.

An enhancement that added 30 MP, somewhere high up in the tiers (Tier 5, likely) would do a lot for sustained DPS.

Carpone wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 3:33pm:


Nah. Barbarians will be king. Maybe bearbarians might make a momentary appearance. But DPS bears are a sleeper until we see Shifter. If shifter can make up for the strength difference you're going to see between bears and bearbarians against pure barbs. Then maybe.

But that assumes shifter isn't going to be mutually exclusive and somehow uninformed fuckwits don't manage to get bears preemptively nuked before we test shit.

Edrein wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:17pm:


Bearbarians can get damn near the same str LOL.

Pure barb = 6 from double frenzy and 10 from mighty rage versus 2 rams might 4 giant growth 2 frenzy 6 greater rage

Edrein wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:19pm:


You realize wolf adds literally nothing to dps bear doesnt, besides some attack speed and sneak dmg???? Wolves can currently get damn near 110 str without divine might currently, bears can get exact same.  110 str = 50 modifer = 75 dmg with two handed fighting 150 with new two handed fighting

Teth wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:22pm:


You and I clearly envisioned different level splits on the bearbarian.

With the changes to cleaves using attack speed bonuses; I was imagining 18/x splits for the 10% style bonus and picking up the low hanging fruit boosts. Hence the larger strength difference.

That being said. The difference is bigger due to ED twists and whether or not they are working with bear rage atm. Fatesinger's T4 primal hymn is an extra +3 strength.

PS: ram's might and animal growth don't stack the strength bonus. They are both typed as size, so you only get +4 tops.


IE the rage chart:

Pure Barb: 10 (mighty rage) + 3 (power rage) + 2 (frenzy) + 4 (death frenzy) + 3 (primal hymn) = 22

Your example Bearbarian: 6 (greater rage) + 3 (power rage) + 2 (enduring beast) + 2 (frenzy) + 2/4 Ram's/Animal Growth = 17 (20 if primal hymn applies)

18/x Bearbarian: 4 (rage) + 3 (power rage) + 2 (enduring beast) + 2/4 Ram's/Animal Growth = 13 (16 if primal hymn applies)

Pure Bear: 4 (rage) + 2 (enduring beast) +2/4 Ram's/animal Growth = 10 (13 if primal hymn applies)

Teth wrote on Feb 6^th, 2020 at 7:58am:


5% doesn't remotely beat any of the barbarian capstones though. And since greater rage requires 11 barbarian, I'm not seeing seeing a big enough trade off on the high barb splits.

A lot of the bear power comes from the cores like great maul and the attack speed boosts.

Because don't forget even though they 'sped' up the bear animations, they are still pretty awful.

Cripey wrote on Feb 6^th, 2020 at 9:57am:

Light damage scaling wasn't going to get tweaked due to Inquisitor. Now that the light damage works with ranged, people would flip shit if post nerf law dice inquisitors could make it up via playing KotC builds using the light dice to replace that.

Cripey wrote on Feb 6^th, 2020 at 10:16am:


Alright brainlet. Do you think they were going to give paladin let's just say 10-12d6 light damage per hit. When they know that there will still be the law dice for inquisitive?

It's too much work for them to make stance that makes the light damage mutually exclusive with the law damage.