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Skoodge
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #25 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:46pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 2:28pm:
It's not like the vault has a monopoly on smart posters and has no bad posters.

I'm not sure the vault is bringing anything to the table that they can't get elsewhere.  Or just read by lurking here.


If you think that, you really haven't been paying attention.

Both boards have their fair share of poorly mannered social retards.  Difference is that our social retards (begrudgingly, even the ones I hate) know how to play the game and understand it far better than the social retards on their board.

There are some good ideas on the motherboards and they're either completely derailed by rabid fanboys or lost in the shuffle of the stacks upon stacks of absolutely horrid ideas pitched by the casual and the clueless of Jerry's kids.

There's less crap to dig through here and when you filter out the juvenile name calling, most discussions are actually way more productive than their crapfest.
  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #26 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:54pm
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Skoodge wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:46pm:
If you think that, you really haven't been paying attention.

Both boards have their fair share of poorly mannered social retards.  Difference is that our social retards (begrudgingly, even the ones I hate) know how to play the game and understand it far better than the social retards on their board.

There are some good ideas on the motherboards and they're either completely derailed by rabid fanboys or lost in the shuffle of the stacks upon stacks of absolutely horrid ideas pitched by the casual and the clueless of Jerry's kids.

There's less crap to dig through here and when you filter out the juvenile name calling, most discussions are actually way more productive than their crapfest.


Did it ever occur to you that the amount of shit posting here would go up if a dev was directly interacting with the community?

I would submit that direct posting by a dev would result in more extensive trolling by a certain segment of the vault community and that would have a negative impact on the ability to have a cogent conversation.   

It's probably better that they don't post and just lurk and read.    The issue isn't whether they should or should not read threads here.  The issue is whether it makes sense for them to post in them publicly.
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:56pm by Asheras »  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #27 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 4:14pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:54pm:
Did it ever occur to you that the amount of shit posting here would go up if a dev was directly interacting with the community?

I would submit that direct posting by a dev would result in more extensive trolling by a certain segment of the vault community and that would have a negative impact on the ability to have a cogent conversation.   

It's probably better that they don't post and just lurk and read.    The issue isn't whether they should or should not read threads here.  The issue is whether it makes sense for them to post in them publicly.


The problem is any dev that would post here would still be towing company lines for job security. Even if they were 1% more lax in what they say/reveal compared to the mobo.

Because of that most people would either flame them or just drown them in shitstorm of criticism.

The only difference in all reality if a dev posted here compared to the mobo is that the vaultie has the ability to fully and completely show their disdain through whatever colorful language they choose to employ. The dev would still have to either sack up and read through the snark and vitriol or they'd continue to ignore the feedback because someone hurt their sensibilities.
  
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Skoodge
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #28 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 5:13pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:54pm:
d it ever occur to you that the amount of shit posting here would go up if a dev was directly interacting with the community?


Did it ever occur to you to go back and look at our interactions with SSG employees in the past?  I'd say there was a higher level of respect given when they were interacting with us than since they've completely stopped (though I wouldn't suggest Jerry testing that theory...).

Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 3:54pm:
It's probably better that they don't post and just lurk and read.


And yeah, that might be the better option.  My main point is I sincerely feel that, shit posting aside, the vault is well worth their time.  Far more worth their time than trying to split the wheat from the chaff on the mobos.
  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #29 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 5:29pm
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The critical issue being that everyone here who posts the massive conversation pieces and data dumps about DPS, Theorycrafting, etc etc is capable of backing it up with an honest opinion.

I've been lurking for years here and only recently been angry enough to bother posting (and I need validation since I got banned from other forums) and the simplest truth is that the restrictions on honesty and echo-chamber management of the mobo's prevents that overly rude and brutal criticism to come across in the form it needs to.

If Devs were to try and shill their changes as anything other than hardcore favoritism here, they'd get called all manner of horrible (be honest with yourself it would be horrible) things but within that harsh criticism lies the truth, nobody but a true player invested in the health of the game, over the health of their forum score and imaginary relationship with the devs would say such things.

Everyone here wants the game to be good because we want to enjoy the game, everyone who doesn't care on that level isn't here right now, reading this right now, typing out how retarded the devs are for their dumbass shilling. When you remove that level of concern and motivation you find yourself devoid of the necessary vitriol to improve, instead you simply seek to massage the formless lumps of simps begging for E-points on the forums about how great things are and then the game dies.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #30 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 6:14pm
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Technomage wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 11:13am:
This is definitely the vibe I'm getting from the Vault.

I think one problem is the fact Lynn no longer posts here.

Perhaps Sev or Steelstar "suggested" participation here could have deleterious effects on their employment at SSG.


I never understood why they can't or don't post here.  Its not that hard to make a deniable sock.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #31 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 7:50pm
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Chip wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 5:29pm:
Everyone here wants the game to be good because we want to enjoy the game, everyone who doesn't care on that level isn't here right now, reading this right now

Well, almost.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #32 - Feb 17th, 2020 at 11:29pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 2:28pm:
I don't think the problem is the intelligent posters here making great points on flaws in design or bringing well constructed dissenting opinions .   I mean, sure that happens here, mixed in with "your mom" jokes and homo and trans phobic slurs.   But, the intelligent posters here are also accessible to the devs on the forums and/or on discord and/or through other channels.   


Implying that he's "one of the intelligent posters" =/= promoting PL nerfs on the mobos...   Grin Grin Grin
  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #33 - Feb 18th, 2020 at 10:50am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 11:29pm:
Implying that he's "one of the intelligent posters" =/= promoting PL nerfs on the mobos...   Grin Grin Grin


Grin
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #34 - Feb 19th, 2020 at 3:18pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 2:28pm:
I don't think the problem is the intelligent posters here making great points on flaws in design or bringing well constructed dissenting opinions .   I mean, sure that happens here, mixed in with "your mom" jokes and homo and trans phobic slurs.   But, the intelligent posters here are also accessible to the devs on the forums and/or on discord and/or through other channels.   

It's not like the vault has a monopoly on smart posters and has no bad posters.

I'm not sure the vault is bringing anything to the table that they can't get elsewhere.  Or just read by lurking here.

Possibly valid, but not at all what I was talking about.

I'm saying Lynnabel is unpopular here now because she stopped posting honest observations and started posting what Sev wants to hear.

I'm also saying she stopped posting here because posting what Sev wants to hear here will get her flamed and she knows it.

Yes, they could get from the motherboards what they can get here, but to do that they'd have to allow honest communication and stop favoring rabid fanbois, which Sev's ego will never allow.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #35 - Feb 19th, 2020 at 3:58pm
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Strake wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 7:50pm:
Chip wrote on Feb 17th, 2020 at 5:29pm:
Everyone here wants the game to be good because we want to enjoy the game, everyone who doesn't care on that level isn't here right now, reading this right now


Well, almost.

Damn it, the party's been over for like 6 years now and these bastards just won't leave my house Grin

Admit it, Strake, if they truly fixed the game, you'd come back and try it again. You've given up hope that they ever will, but you still want them to.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #36 - Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm
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Meursault wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 3:58pm:
Admit it, Strake, if they truly fixed the game, you'd come back and try it again. You've given up hope that they ever will, but you still want them to.

I left 4 years in, after watching them fuck things up for two.

They've had 10 years since then. 10 years of exponential growth in fuck-ups. So at this point, "fixing" things involves stripping back the last 12 years of development and starting over.

I hopped back in about 5 years ago. I ran one quest and was shocked at how they'd managed to double or quadruple down on the game's problems, large and small. Fucking lag? Still? Are you for fucking real? And how have they managed to make the inventory tetris even worse?

There is no fixing this game. Once upon a time, it was a real gem. But somewhere around 12 years ago, they started trying to be like all the other shit MMOs out there. Everything that made it unique was watered down to feel like every other shit MMO - from active combat to itemization to endless grind. Does anyone here even remember that DDO once billed itself as the no-grind MMO?
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm by Strake »  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #37 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 5:58am
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Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
There is no fixing this game.


This.

Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
Once upon a time, it was a real gem. But somewhere around 12 years ago, they started trying to be like all the other shit MMOs out there.


Since EDs.
  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #38 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 7:11pm
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Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
Does anyone here even remember that DDO once billed itself as the no-grind MMO?


Wait, what?

When the fuck was this?!

When was DDO trying not to be super grindy, and how did they do it?!?!?!
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #39 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 8:01pm
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Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
Does anyone here even remember that DDO once billed itself as the no-grind MMO?


Just the first of many bait and switch tactics employed by the dev team.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #40 - Feb 21st, 2020 at 12:34am
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noamineo wrote on Feb 14th, 2020 at 1:07pm:
Might wanna phrase that better. Keep in mind: even the vault likes Lynnabel.

For as much as people like "it" for being more involved with the game then most devs and interacts better with the community then the actual community dev, she is still is a piece of shit for using a sock account on the forum to influence the discussion by pretending to be a player.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #41 - Feb 21st, 2020 at 8:13am
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Druidica wrote on Feb 21st, 2020 at 12:34am:
For as much as people like "it" for being more involved with the game then most devs and interacts better with the community then the actual community dev, she is still is a piece of shit for using a sock account on the forum to influence the discussion by pretending to be a player.


It was only a matter of time before that came out. There's always 5-10 accounts that were created 10+ years ago with only a handful of posts that come out of hiding only when things aren't going SSG's way on the forums. One quick check of their post history confirms they are (most likely) dev sock accounts that only post supporting opinions on controversial topics.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #42 - Feb 21st, 2020 at 9:07am
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Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
They've had 10 years since then. 10 years of exponential growth in fuck-ups. So at this point, "fixing" things involves stripping back the last 12 years of development and starting over.

I hopped back in about 5 years ago. I ran one quest and was shocked at how they'd managed to double or quadruple down on the game's problems, large and small. Fucking lag? Still? Are you for fucking real? And how have they managed to make the inventory tetris even worse?

There is no fixing this game. Once upon a time, it was a real gem. But somewhere around 12 years ago, they started trying to be like all the other shit MMOs out there. Everything that made it unique was watered down to feel like every other shit MMO - from active combat to itemization to endless grind. Does anyone here even remember that DDO once billed itself as the no-grind MMO?


I had an absolutely shocking and slightly depressing epiphany a few months back that may very well have killed the game for me.

The 1st obvious part was that the only real way to save the game (and the smartest move) would be to move towards DDO2.  The same game with a newer, updated engine and graphics.  While a real investor with a clue might be harder to find to finance it (mostly because a savvy investor is going to investigate the team/company before hand), with the right kind of PR this type of thing can happen on kickstarter where they can milk the whales and boomers and gen-xers with nostalgia hard-ons.

And here's where I stopped logging in:  even if they got the finances and hired some decent programmers to produce something fresh, up-to-date and without the handicap of the spaghetti code: this team will still Turbine it the fuck up.

They had a hot streak going there for awhile with reaper and RL, but every decision they've made for well over a year now has been *meh* at best but most have bordered on the colossal fuck up side.

The players council has become an official joke, the new gear is always just insanely OP or pointless (as if designed by people who don't know what classes need, just arbitrarily flinging states on random items), nerfs happen because they can't plan ahead, the grind is getting ridiculous, xp and about a million other things still need serious overpasses but they continue to use resources to patch absolutely harmless "exploits."

They can't prioritize, they can't balance and even given a fresh start, they're still going to fuck it all up.

I love the game but it's so Turbined up right now I can't even look at it  Undecided
  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #43 - Feb 22nd, 2020 at 4:02pm
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noamineo wrote on Feb 20th, 2020 at 7:11pm:
Wait, what?

When the fuck was this?!

When was DDO trying not to be super grindy, and how did they do it?!?!?!


https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Online-StormReach-Standard-DVD/dp/B0009N...
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #44 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 5:53pm
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Strake wrote on Feb 19th, 2020 at 10:38pm:
They've had 10 years since then. 10 years of exponential growth in fuck-ups. So at this point, "fixing" things involves stripping back the last 12 years of development and starting over.

There is no fixing this game. Once upon a time, it was a real gem. But somewhere around 12 years ago, they started trying to be like all the other shit MMOs out there. Everything that made it unique was watered down to feel like every other shit MMO - from active combat to itemization to endless grind. Does anyone here even remember that DDO once billed itself as the no-grind MMO?


QED

The pitch to investors was incredible. We all knew "a new dungeon a week" wouldn't pan out, but the "we are going after the 2 million D&D players by having instanced dungeons balanced for a party of four that no one else can do with the ruleset" got them money. It was a sustainable subscription   They abandoned that long ago.  Each time you get a dev, it is like they don't know what AD&D was about, ignores the previous devs had developed and just started doing what other MMOs do (badly) and can't compete.

It will remain a niche until they can get someone who understood it was about a party of heroes and not "I enjoy Dwarf Fortress' definition of fun, which is, and I quote, 'losing'".

Fuck heroes and fuck the players.  This is a DM "wins" game based on how they work harder to nerf something that a few players exploit vs. actually fixing what impact the majority of players.







  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #45 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 7:32pm
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TRing and endless single character progressions grinds or unlimited gear grinds like S/s/s are like sugar or alcohol or anything else that is fun in small doses but too much taken to excess becomes really problematic.   

Every decision made that lost their focus on the party as the core gameplay unit and the campaign (which has progrrssion limits for a single character) has damaged the game.  sure it made some players happy but it lost more. And it built barriers to new player acquisition.

I’m sorry if that offends the soloers or players who want to run only one character forever and always have something to do.   But soloing is not D&D and unlimited single character progression  is very problematic long term For any game.  Especially for a game that reuses content with TRing. 

Not every game can be for everybody.   That’s ok.   Know what your focus is and stay there.   Chik-fil-a is very successful without selling burgers. 

When you try to please everyone it is more likely that you end up pleasing no one.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #46 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 8:56pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 23rd, 2020 at 7:32pm:
TRing and endless single character progressions grinds or unlimited gear grinds like S/s/s are like sugar or alcohol or anything else that is fun in small doses but too much taken to excess becomes really problematic.   

Every decision made that lost their focus on the party as the core gameplay unit and the campaign (which has progrrssion limits for a single character) has damaged the game.  sure it made some players happy but it lost more. And it built barriers to new player acquisition.

I’m sorry if that offends the soloers or players who want to run only one character forever and always have something to do.   But soloing is not D&D and unlimited single character progression  is very problematic long term For any game.  Especially for a game that reuses content with TRing. 

Not every game can be for everybody.   That’s ok.   Know what your focus is and stay there.   Chik-fil-a is very successful without selling burgers. 

When you try to please everyone it is more likely that you end up pleasing no one.


This is what has killed the game for me.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2020 at 8:56pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #47 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 9:10am
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Asheras wrote on Feb 23rd, 2020 at 7:32pm:
I’m sorry if that offends the soloers or players who want to run only one character forever and always have something to do.   But soloing is not D&D and unlimited single character progression  is very problematic long term For any game.  Especially for a game that reuses content with TRing. 


I agree with everything except this. I have almost always been a person who plays a singular character in games, alts here or there, and while I'll admit more often than not I acknowledge I'm handicapping myself in ways.

That being said; a good design team can easily handle the pitfalls that DDO failed in that regard.

If you want unlimited progression for the singular player character, then you need to make a system where that play's goalpost will always be shifting to accommodate their play style.

By that I mean; someone like myself that's got all of the lives completed in every regard on a single character. I 'deserve' the power I unlocked, but the problem is the fact that that accumulated power means my routes to success are easier but my challenge doesn't increase.

The problem with DDO is the only way the devs can think to fix that would be exp adjustments as we see with 1st, 2nd, 3rd+ lives. That doesn't work mostly because after the third life it's the same investment.

You'd have to find a way to shift the goal post for people like me that refuse to alt up for whatever reason. But do so in a way that doesn't make us feel entirely like we're being punished to accommodate 'x' players playstyle.

I think a good way to get folks like myself to invest in alts and help 'branch' out and play at different levels rather than staying capped is to give us a system to sideways invest into alts from our mains. You're triple heroic comp? Congrats if you make a character your toon will start with basic completionist or 'x' amount of past lives. That reduces the alt grind that most folks like myself refuse to take part of.

It also benefits the players opposite of me that are alt-a-holics. Now they don't feel as punished for investing in a main because hey their alts benefit.

Not sure how you could make that system benefit new players to be honest though. But at this point we should be considering all forms of player retention for vets than trying to get new blood given how stacked the game is against new players coming in and staying for longer than 2-3 months.
  
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #48 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 12:39pm
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The problems for DDO is (was) created by a single person who did not understand the playerbase, Kate Paiz as she lead the game from 2007 to the DDO:EU launch. 

Say what you want about Judith Hoffman, James Jones or even Fernando! or Robert Ciccolini it is Kate that put the game into this awful position.   Blaming the current dev team for the mistakes by the ancient and long gone developers is pointless.

Yes ever time I think of the mistakes made by the Devs under Kate I get beyond made, it infuriates me.   She had no clue and ignored everything said to her from the player base, including her hand picked mournland group of yes men, who f'ing agreed with her.   She changed her mind more often than she changed her clothes. 

And it doesn't help that a few devs doubled down on her ideas after she left.     The Devs today are paying for her stupidity.   Her decisions have painted the Devs into a corner and the amount of work it would require to fix is undoable in today's game because of financial issues.

What could have been!

Did you know the Dragontouched Armor and Shields are the exact same system as Green Steel Crafting?    Yes I wrote that correctly.   Based upon a single forum post where the player complained about the struggles to create green steel blanks the whole system was hidden from the players and we lost shields and the fourth quest.  And she didn't understand the compliant in the first place.  The player made a Green Steel Great Crossbow rather than a Rapier.   

Did you know that Meridia was a new central hub for multiple adventure packs, even though it is located in the center of a Wilderness Adventure Area?

She made many decisions that we are paying for today, 10 god damn years later.

All those individual crafting systems that don't synergize together, her decision.   Grind until you puke and do it again.   Make supporting builds unfun and basically useless in quests.   That's right... 

Don't get me started on Clerics.  Oh wait I already am.   Instead of fixing the problems with clerics lets create two other healer classes that have their own problems.   Clerics are still fucking broken.  And now in Reaper I can't even heal myself.   Really?   Great fucking fix.
  
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Cripey
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Re: SSG Community Meetup
Reply #49 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 5:35pm
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hyplo wrote on Feb 24th, 2020 at 12:39pm:
The problems for DDO is (was) created by a single person who did not understand the playerbase, Kate Paiz as she lead the game from 2007 to the DDO:EU launch. 

Say what you want about Judith Hoffman, James Jones or even http://www.ddovault.com/Images/Fernando4.png! or Robert Ciccolini it is Kate that put the game into this awful position.   Blaming the current dev team for the mistakes by the ancient and long gone developers is pointless.

Yes ever time I think of the mistakes made by the Devs under Kate I get beyond made, it infuriates me.   She had no clue and ignored everything said to her from the player base, including her hand picked mournland group of yes men, who f'ing agreed with her.   She changed her mind more often than she changed her clothes. 

And it doesn't help that a few devs doubled down on her ideas after she left.     The Devs today are paying for her stupidity.   Her decisions have painted the Devs into a corner and the amount of work it would require to fix is undoable in today's game because of financial issues.

What could have been!

Did you know the Dragontouched Armor and Shields are the exact same system as Green Steel Crafting?    Yes I wrote that correctly.   Based upon a single forum post where the player complained about the struggles to create green steel blanks the whole system was hidden from the players and we lost shields and the fourth quest.  And she didn't understand the compliant in the first place.  The player made a Green Steel Great Crossbow rather than a Rapier.   

Did you know that Meridia was a new central hub for multiple adventure packs, even though it is located in the center of a Wilderness Adventure Area?

She made many decisions that we are paying for today, 10 god damn years later.

All those individual crafting systems that don't synergize together, her decision.   Grind until you puke and do it again.   Make supporting builds unfun and basically useless in quests.   That's right... 

Don't get me started on Clerics.  Oh wait I already am.   Instead of fixing the problems with clerics lets create two other healer classes that have their own problems.   Clerics are still fucking broken.  And now in Reaper I can't even heal myself.   Really?   Great fucking fix.



I was with you until you started crying about self healing in reaper like a whiny cunt.
  

Grands Superhero IRL

Or as they say in Ireland -
Derp derp derp derp. Yellow moons. Lassie.

Hordo wrote on Nov 21st, 2012 at 8:07am:
EDIT: BTW I love your post.  It reads as if English is your 3rd language behind gibberish and dipshit.


majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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