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Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? (Read 5397 times)

Hardcore_Girl Dragon Raider Offline Hardcore or Go home! Posts: 267 Joined: Apr 7^th, 2013	Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? May 4^th, 2020 at 1:36am	Print Post
	Hi Folks Can anyone help me with a breakdown of what is the maximum STR that can be had on a level 30 barb? Also is it better to be STR based or CON based (all level ups, items focussed on CON etc). My first life pure barb can reach 100 when fully raged, but seems a bit low. Thanks in advance.


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[some shit] Titan Demolisher Offline Posts: 378 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #1 - May 4^th, 2020 at 8:30am	Print Post
	Hardcore_Girl wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 1:36am: Also is it better to be STR based or CON based (all level ups, items focussed on CON etc). Are you trying for dps or trying to be shit?


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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5977 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #2 - May 4^th, 2020 at 9:00am	Print Post
	STR is not the first consideration

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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ZooperDooper Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1204 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #3 - May 4^th, 2020 at 1:31pm	Print Post
	130 dumbass


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #4 - May 4^th, 2020 at 2:11pm	Print Post
	[some shit] wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 8:30am: Are you trying for dps or trying to be shit? As someone who built for visage of terror at endgame I'm confused.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #5 - May 4^th, 2020 at 2:25pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 2:11pm: As someone who built for visage of terror at endgame I'm confused. I don't think he was considering a Visage of Terror focused build.


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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1212 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #6 - May 4^th, 2020 at 6:12pm	Print Post
	This should break down many sources of strength with a sustainable of 158 points. https://ddowiki.com/page/Strength


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Gunga Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Fuck You. Posts: 9361 Location: New Jersey Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #7 - May 4^th, 2020 at 9:42pm	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 2:25pm: I don't think he was considering a Visage of Terror focused build.� Visage is definitely not a DPS build.
	« Last Edit: May 5^th, 2020 at 12:32am by Gunga »
	Smrti wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 3:00pm: Gunga is the best.
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[some shit] Titan Demolisher Offline Posts: 378 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #8 - May 5^th, 2020 at 2:53am	Print Post
	Gunga wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 9:42pm: Visage is definitely not a DPS build. Correct. You can run your flavour shit all day long, but it's not dps.


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GimpyPaw Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 351 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2012	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #9 - May 5^th, 2020 at 8:23pm	Print Post
	Artorias wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 6:12pm: This should break down many sources of strength with a sustainable of 158 points. https://ddowiki.com/page/Strength I'm not too sure we agree on what "sustainable" means. Some of the stuff under the "theoretical maximum" is short term and unreliable. +4 madstone clicky effect? Boots only have 2 charges for +2, if you're even wearing lvl 13 gear at cap, the other +2 requires getting a proc. +2 Competence (Bard Inspire Excellence song) Nice if you remember to bring a bard, but this is along the same lines as people who brag about their spell dc or tanking prr, with the disclaimer that a bard needs to be in party. My horc barb right now hasn't spent any destiny points or epic feats for STR, but I can self buff into a 130 (Abishi cookies, yugo pot, store pot) and keep that until I run out of Primal Screams. Hits 136 when both the gloves and necklace from Sharn proc, but that's not sustainable.


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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1212 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #10 - May 6^th, 2020 at 7:07am	Print Post
	GimpyPaw wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 8:23pm: I'm not too sure we agree on what "sustainable" means.� Some of the stuff under the "theoretical maximum" is short term and unreliable. +4 madstone clicky effect?� Boots only have 2 charges for +2, if you're even wearing lvl 13 gear at cap, the other +2 requires getting a proc. +2 Competence (Bard Inspire Excellence song) Nice if you remember to bring a bard, but this is along the same lines as people who brag about their spell dc or tanking prr, with the disclaimer that a bard needs to be in party. My horc barb right now hasn't spent any destiny points or epic feats for STR, but I can self buff into a 130 (Abishi cookies, yugo pot, store pot) and keep that until I run out of Primal Screams. Hits 136 when both the gloves and necklace from Sharn proc, but that's not sustainable. You're actually right, I should have clarified.


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #11 - May 6^th, 2020 at 11:06am	Print Post
	[some shit] wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 2:53am: Correct. You can run your flavour shit all day long, but it's not dps. Idk about that one chief. Outside of boss beat downs 6 mob instakill trumps raw damage, especially in higher skulls.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #12 - May 6^th, 2020 at 12:30pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 11:06am: Idk about that one chief. Outside of boss beat downs 6 mob instakill trumps raw damage, especially in higher skulls. maybe if the game were different, slower and less dps powercreeped. But Visage sacrifices a large percentage of dps for a 30 second cooldown ability.
	« Last Edit: May 6^th, 2020 at 12:30pm by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Gunga Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Fuck You. Posts: 9361 Location: New Jersey Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #13 - May 6^th, 2020 at 12:59pm	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 12:30pm: maybe if the game were different, slower and less dps powercreeped. But Visage sacrifices a large percentage of dps for a 30 second cooldown ability. Yeah, visage is garbage. Imagine running a visage build in r10s in 2020. lol

	Smrti wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 3:00pm: Gunga is the best.
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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1212 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #14 - May 6^th, 2020 at 2:25pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 11:06am: Idk about that one chief. Outside of boss beat downs 6 mob instakill trumps raw damage, especially in higher skulls. Let's talk DC first: "Will save vs 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level." So let's say it's 20 + cons. mod. Let's take these values into account... https://ddowiki.com/page/Constitution ...and let's say you run around with 140 constitution (and that is a LOT) for a grand total of 65 mod points. Now, let's add those 65 points to the original formula and we have have...85 DC on will. Not saying it will never land but I hardly consider this reliable on R10 (or even 6 for that matter). The best part of this, is the paralyze effect if enemies make the save and, at this point, I can only assume it will be most of the time. But maybe I'm mistaken and I'd gladly rethink my position if someone makes a better point for this
	« Last Edit: May 6^th, 2020 at 2:26pm by Artorias »

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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #15 - May 6^th, 2020 at 5:20pm	Print Post
	Artorias wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 2:25pm: Let's talk DC first: "Will save vs 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level." So let's say it's 20 + cons. mod. Let's take these values into account... https://ddowiki.com/page/Constitution ...and let's say you run around with 140 constitution (and that is a LOT) for a grand total of 65 mod points. Now, let's add those 65 points to the original formula and we have have...85 DC on will. Not saying it will never land but I hardly consider this reliable on R10 (or even 6 for that matter). The best part of this, is the paralyze effect if enemies make the save and, at this point, I can only assume it will be most of the time. But maybe I'm mistaken and I'd gladly rethink my position if someone makes a better point for this You usually want to cleave right before it to pop the level 6 core. Having other party members with will save debuffs helps. As much as people hate it; the barbarian aura of menace is also nice. Really like any 'caster' its a game of getting the ideal conditions. That being said; even if you fail you just made those mobs helpless. And you don't even have to give up too much strength in the pursuit of being a con-tard. Also despite the tooltip I think the DC is broken. Last time I ran a visage build a good 3-4 months ago; I was landing instakills in R5+ runs reliably.


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Justanotherlurker Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 384 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #16 - May 6^th, 2020 at 7:50pm	Print Post
	It�s not a will save


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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #17 - May 6^th, 2020 at 8:04pm	Print Post
	Justanotherlurker wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 7:50pm: It�s not a will save Both the tool-tip and the Wiki say it's a Will save...

	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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[some shit] Titan Demolisher Offline Posts: 378 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #18 - May 7^th, 2020 at 6:48am	Print Post
	Technomage wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 8:04pm: Both the tool-tip and the Wiki say it's a Will save... I've heard a ton of people claiming it's actually a wisdom save or smthing, which is preferable for reasons. I've heard it lands a lot more than it has any right to, but it's still not a dps build. A palemaster isn't a dps build. Whether or not you think instakill is better than dps is irrelevant, because even if instakill > dps, instakill != dps.


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #19 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:49am	Print Post
	[some shit] wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 6:48am: I've heard a ton of people claiming it's actually a wisdom save or smthing, which is preferable for reasons. I've heard it lands a lot more than it has any right to, but it's still not a dps build. A palemaster isn't a dps build.� Whether or not you think instakill is better than dps is irrelevant, because even if instakill > dps, instakill != dps. Still, you don't have to truly sacrifice anything gear wise that would differentiate you from being a DPS barbarian. The only difference is your level up stats and depending on your dedication which artifact you slot/swap. Granted you will have a different capstone that presents a sizeable DPS jump when its active.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #20 - May 7^th, 2020 at 12:39pm	Print Post
	Not only the capstone but the ap split starts to become taxing and will omit many abilities. Less strikethrough, less melee power, and a lesser weapon ( Berserker can use Tail and get more out of it than Ravager does using great axe ). The Berserker splits can use KtA and grab Knockout from Occult Slayer, while still retaining the Berserker 18 core critical multi. The dps loss is significant.
	« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2020 at 12:40pm by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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[some shit] Titan Demolisher Offline Posts: 378 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2013	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #21 - May 8^th, 2020 at 12:30am	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 9:49am: Still, you don't have to truly sacrifice anything gear wise that would differentiate you from being a DPS barbarian. The only difference is your level up stats and depending on your dedication which artifact you slot/swap. Granted you will have a different capstone that presents a sizeable DPS jump when its active. t5 FB is the dps option. That's 36 ap (or something, 35? WHO CARES) Capstone ravager is 41 ap You have nothing left to play with. Even with max racial ap, horc wants more ap. Horc is fucking expensive. That's not even touching OS Rubbinns wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 12:39pm: Not only the capstone but the ap split starts to become taxing and will omit many abilities. Less strikethrough, less melee power, and a lesser weapon ( Berserker can use Tail and get more out of it than Ravager does using great axe ). The Berserker splits can use KtA and grab Knockout from Occult Slayer, while still retaining the Berserker 18 core critical multi. The dps loss is significant. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was still t5 FB and then capstone ravager. FB with tail is dope. FB with baz morath is a delete button in FOTW. Ravager with tail can neck itself. Ravager with baz is, like okay. Ravager with baz in FOTW fails at being a delete button.


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #22 - May 8^th, 2020 at 10:13am	Print Post
	[some shit] wrote on May 8^th, 2020 at 12:30am: t5 FB is the dps option. That's� 36 ap (or something, 35? WHO CARES) Capstone ravager is 41 ap You have nothing left to play with. Even with max racial ap, horc wants more ap. Horc is fucking expensive. That's not even touching OS I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was still t5 FB and then capstone ravager. FB with tail is dope. FB with baz morath is a delete button in FOTW. Ravager with tail can neck itself. Ravager with baz is, like okay. Ravager with baz in FOTW fails at being a delete button. Alright, I'll confess before my reputation is fully tarnished. I was trying to bait and see who'd react with typical vault flair and who would actually try to reason with the view point. I'm disappointed, yal are getting older and reasonable, less prone to vitriol.


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Strake Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Evading a ban Posts: 6388 Joined: Jan 5^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #23 - May 8^th, 2020 at 11:19am	Print Post
	Fifteen pieces of flair is the minimum, okay? Now, you guys know it's up to you whether or not you want to do just the minimum. Or, well, like Gunga, for example, he has 37 pieces of flair. And a terrific smile. Look, guys, people can get DDO information anywhere, okay? They come to the Vault for the atmosphere and the attitude. Okay? That's what the flair's about. It's about fun. Look, I want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to express more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you?


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Maximum sustainable STR on a barbarian? Reply #24 - May 8^th, 2020 at 11:27am	Print Post
	Strake wrote on May 8^th, 2020 at 11:19am: Fifteen pieces of flair is the minimum, okay? Now, you guys know it's up to you whether or not you want to do just the minimum. Or, well, like Gunga, for example, he has 37 pieces of flair. And a terrific smile. Look, guys, people can get DDO information anywhere, okay? They come to the Vault for the atmosphere and the attitude. Okay? That's what the flair's about. It's about fun. Look, I want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to express more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you? Newsfeed!

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