Wow... SSG I am terrified...

On a real note, after speaking with a civil litigation attorney, sadly in the United States SSG has no civil case...

Though if you ever got scammed by someone selling duped items, you can file a civil case against SSG for allowing an environment in which fraudulent activities occurred.

https://prnt.sc/tzvj02

sums it up pretty well
@noamineo

noamineo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 9:57pm:


You mean like how Fortnite sued the bejesus out of a 14 year old and settled out of court (because obviously his parents paid for his mistakes).  It's very similar to your dupe exploits and the argument of violation of copyright and potentially ruining the experience for other games and profiting by selling items that otherwise could be sold by SSG (or they could sell other items to you in order for you to grind to obtain those items in the actual intended mechanics).

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49972407

ddoplayer98 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 10:52pm:


You realize this isn't a criminal offense, it's a civic offense through the TOS.

So yes, just like Fortnite spanked a 14 yr old boy and his mom who was pro se'n his sorry butt, SSG has some room to push on players selling digital items for currency as a business.

Sorry francis, I was reading through the DDO TOS (Turbine), DL'n the client to see if there's an updated one.  Else, the lawyers that did the switch from Turbine likely have an assumption paper, not required to be shown, that states Turbine's TOS is SSG's TOS.

Ya'll are pretty brazen to have a publicly-viewable series of posts (stickied) that clearly outline dupe entrepreneurs.  It doesn't matter about your anonymity, I think they can get you through spanking Strake for being a host to this nonsense.

https://www.ddo.com/en/dungeons-and-dragons-online-united-states-terms-service&n...;  <-- The old Turbine TOS, kinda says a few things you might wanna read up on and consult with a lawyer if you've a case of the "Imma getchyas" in your spidey sense.

But don't take it from me, read some answers regarding selling digital items, copyright law and TOS from the legal stack exchange.

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/12098/is-it-legal-to-sell-game-items-for
-real-money

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 10:16pm:


Some basic details:

*The cheats being used involved modifying game code, which is legally VERY different from exploiting a bug in the code(which kisty cannot understand because he is a fucking retard)

*Fortnite is a COMPETITIVE game or "esport", the industry is currently trying to make it legal to GAMBLE on esports, ergo cheating must be far more tightly controlled. DDO is not competative nor is it an esport(again, points kisty is far too stupid to comprehend)

*The case "settled out of court" which is code for "got the kid to fucking stop doing it and maybe made his parents cough up a few bucks"

*The legal action DEFINITELY cost Epic Games several times more than any settlement they could possibly get out of it, which they are fine with because they stand to make way more money in the future and they are a big company with big lawyers. SSG is a small company with tight margins. All economic considerations that an absolute total and complete retarded fucking halfwit like KISTILIN is incapable of understanding.



tl:dr kisty is a retarded sack of crap and SSG can't afford to sue anyone.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 10:58pm:

Holy shit, did you even read your own link?  You are so bad at this.

NOTpopejubal wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:02pm:


Let me explain the claims you'll be defending if you dupe items and sell them for profit, per my earlier citations.

1.  Copyright is infringed upon by duplicating an item that is digitally copyrighted in the game. 

2.  You are profiting by selling the items, explicitly forbidden in the Turbine TOS I read and the cases I cited including the 14 yr old Fortnite kid very much reinforce this notion of a positive claim against defendant that will be found valid.

3.  The kid's age helped him get his $150K pending judgment (that his parents were appointed guardianship over) reduced significantly in arbitration.  What that is, I don't know, but I sure know it was $5 and probably not $500.  The lowest I could see is $5K and it was probably something more like $15,000, which the kid had in his bank account through the youtube monetization.

4.  I'm assuming most of you are not 14 and are indeed 35-46 since we've all been in the same circle/game for 10+ years and most of you started playing in your twenties or early thirties.

5.  I do not expect a judge to be lenient on unethical, middle-aged men for breaking TOS explicitly, mocking it on alternate forums and mocking the company in general on the alternate forums repeatedly.  Every yuck here costs you.

NOTpopejubal wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:31pm:


First, YouTuber “Golden Modz” admitted to posting videos promoting Fortnite cheats and hacks. Instead of pushing for a huge fine, Epic Games signed a deal with the defendant, in which the YouTuber must pay $5,000 if he develops, promotes, or links to any Fortnite cheating tools.Aug 8, 2019

And then he violated it.  He paid at least $5K.

And your wild speculation defense is now dismissed.

NEXT?

So let me just outline this for you, since I spoke with real attorneys and they got paid to do real research...

SSG has no criminal case, no laws have been violated, and the state would be hard pressed to file criminal charges, even if they somehow found some obscure law, and even if a conviction occurred, it would be immediately overturned on appeal, so the state would never bother with such a case.

As for a civil case, SSG would need proof monetary transactions occured, they would have to verify these transactions, and it would all have to be done in the discovery phase of a civil suit, it would take a court order, and months of appeals before even a simple bank would allow SSG access to financial records, lord knows what kind of hoops a company like Zelle or PayPal would go through to not share financial information with a court, not to mention the fact that SSG would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and years on appeals before they ever saw a dime of money, even if all they wanted to do was make a point, there most recent tax reports to the IRS for fiscal year 2019 demonstrate they do not have the financial means to litigate a case like this with any success, oh and btw Krissy, a good legal adviser would have actually reviewed information like SSGs financial standings and its culpability.

You are also forgetting, if SSG sues and loses a lawsuit, they automatically become liable for seeking a frivolous lawsuit and can then be counter sued for an obscene amount of money...

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


That's not how copyrights work. Again: less knowledge of the law than a tub of moldy sour cream.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


A. Turbine does not own DDO. It was sold to Standing Stone Games. Turbine's TOS means all of jack and shit in this argument.

B. SSG's TOS is not a legally-binding contract and the ONLY thing Standing Stone Games can do if you violate it is ban you from the game.

C. The crime committed in the case you keep citing involved editing source code. Since this is the second or third time this has had to be pointed out to you, obviously that means you are way too stupid to understand how that's different. I'd give you an example, but I can't think of one simple enough for your to understand.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


The case was settled out of court because Epic Games could not have won it as what the kid did is not what is called an "Actionable offense", IE not something they could actually sue over. Now, this is America, anyone can file a lawsuit against anyone for any reason, whether or not they have anything that remotely resembles a legal case. A company like Epic can afford to dumb hundreds of thousands of dollars into a case like that, and whether or not the court finds in their favor does not matter to the kid's family, because they will have been buried in tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. They settled "out of court" to avoid GOING to court and thus substantially cut down on the legal fees.

We will never know what the settlement was, but I can bet you it was probably something along the lines of "take down the website and sign a paper saying you won't do it again". Because, again, what he did isn't actually breaking the law.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


I would remind you what they say about the word "assume", but you're already an ass. I'm one, too, but still.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


A judge was never involved in that case. See: "less knowledge of the law than a tub of moldy sour cream".

Listen, dumb-dumb: "settled out of court" means "A judge was not involved". You're going to learn this the hard way when whatever lawyer cheats you out of the money you stole by pretending to be a veteran "settles out of court" with strake's much better layer and gets you to sign a letter saying you're sorry for being a butt-wipe so that Strake doesn't counter-sue you.

Kistilan wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:


No, I'm pretty sure laughing at you is free.

ddoplayer98 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2020 at 11:36pm:


So literally exactly everything I've been saying.

Thanks, pal! A little vindication just made my day.

I think the case against duping has about as much merit as a case against photocopying monopoly money.

Strake wrote on Aug 15^th, 2020 at 12:11am: