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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Best DPS builds in game (Read 23982 times)
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #200 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 4:34pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Aug 28th, 2020 at 2:44pm:
Bob : Holy shit, why am I such a bad at this game? must be sorcs (insert any ranged + AoE class) fault!

Joe : 1-30 is just a noob delay, THF melee rules at cap

Bob : Um...okay? I was crying about gimp R1 difficutlies tho...

Joe : You mean...there are eejits who will whine about gimp skulls during leveling? Fucking waste of everyone's time...
  

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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #201 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 5:48pm
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Justanotherlurker wrote on Aug 28th, 2020 at 3:58pm:
I wanted nudes though

yeah, well none of the other good players fuck with you. While you chase tronko's forum scraps you should be thankful at least I speak to you.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #202 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm
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But of course its kind of a question of making your own fun. I mean, what am I supposed to do, play naked until I get raid gear? That's going to take 9 years between the fucked up drop rates and how infrequently I get to raid(presently: "not at all" for the past 6 months).


Before ravenloft sets came out, gearing was actually totally normal and fun because you just picked items to cover your main stats based on what build you were playing. It wasn't gear tetris like now.

Now with set bonuses being such a huge deal (even in heroics, that +10 melee/ranged power from sharn sets at level 15 is huge), you are forced to use your build's optimum set and then you have to try to fit in everything else.

Before Sharn came out, you had to fit in both adherent + your armor set. So instead of just using the Legendary Utilatarian Necklace for CON, you had to figure out which Ravenloft items you could fit in for CON and still get both set bonuses.

Now it looks like most builds recommend ditching adherent to fit in sharn gear because sharn gear has a lot more insightful/quality bonuses. And you have to fit in an artifact somewhere too.

It gets kind of ridiculous when you are sitting there pouring over a spreadsheet and going "okay i can use A for CON...but i can't because that would mean I wouldn't be able to use B for Deadly...what if I use a different slot...but if I use C in that slot for CON that means I can't get D..."

It was also a LOT easier back before this "legendary" powercreep nonsense. If you were struggling to fit in a stat with what you had, you could just craft something and it would be nearly as good. Now, you can't use crafted gear at cap because the named legendary gear uses a different formula and the scaling is so much higher than what you can achieve with crafted gear.

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Sure, many builds are not "the best", but they might be more fun, easier to play, easier to gear, different to play, more flavorful, etc, etc, etc. DDO's incredibly deep multi-classing makes it possible to do practically anything.


There are a lot of choices, sure, but most of those are bad choices.

Every now and then, I will end up in a party with a veteran who wanted to experiment or a newbie who didn't know any better, and they have some weird split like ranger/paladin/monk, and inevitably they struggle to stay alive and kill stuff. And then they go "yea this life sucks, i'm just going to TR at 20". Or the newbie just gets frustrated and quits.

Was worse before inquis came out, because now most classes can at least do some damage if they do t5 inquis with a half way decent split.

The game has several top tier options like THF paladin builds, then you have the mid tier options that are still "okay" but substantially weaker than the meta, then you have a LOT of garbage options, like thief-acrobat, henshin mystic, etc. Most universal trees have garbage t5s as well, nobody does harper t5 for a reason.

It's strange how SSG struggles to make old trees good, it's honestly something that any decent player could do in a few hours just by changing some numbers. Not perfect mind you, but a huge improvement over what we have currently.
  
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #203 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 2:49pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
It was also a LOT easier back before this "legendary" powercreep nonsense. If you were struggling to fit in a stat with what you had, you could just craft something and it would be nearly as good. Now, you can't use crafted gear at cap because the named legendary gear uses a different formula and the scaling is so much higher than what you can achieve with crafted gear.


I'll admit I really wasn't "playing" back then, at least not the way I am now. I would play to 30 and TR instantly. The real problem for me back then was that getting anything remotely "good" required months of grinding raids. In the lvl 28 cap days, it was all about LGS and thunderforged. Everything worth a damn was BtC and from a raid.

ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
There are a lot of choices, sure, but most of those are bad choices.


It's Sturgeon's Law. Of course if you randomly pick your lvl split, stats, and class distribution, a whole lot of the outcome will be crap.

But its not the game's job to protect you from making mistakes. It was impossible to fuck up a "build" in WoW because there was only 1 build. So either no choices or the possibility of bad choices, which would you prefer?


ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Every now and then, I will end up in a party with a veteran who wanted to experiment or a newbie who didn't know any better, and they have some weird split like ranger/paladin/monk, and inevitably they struggle to stay alive and kill stuff. And then they go "yea this life sucks, i'm just going to TR at 20".


Yep. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Or the newbie just gets frustrated and quits.


The newbie really shouldn't be playing a multi-class split, sorry. Newbs go pure, its very difficult to fuck up a pure.


ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Was worse before inquis came out, because now most classes can at least do some damage if they do t5 inquis with a half way decent split.


Saw what you will about Inquis, but this ^ . Cleans up so many mistakes.


ManyCookies wrote on Aug 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm:
The game has several top tier options like THF paladin builds, then you have the mid tier options that are still "okay" but substantially weaker than the meta, then you have a LOT of garbage options, like thief-acrobat, henshin mystic, etc. Most universal trees have garbage t5s as well, nobody does harper t5 for a reason.

It's strange how SSG struggles to make old trees good, it's honestly something that any decent player could do in a few hours just by changing some numbers. Not perfect mind you, but a huge improvement over what we have currently.



I think thats actually part of the problem: too many players on the motherboards come in with "Here's my complete, revised Henshin Mystic tree!" Which is a proverbial slap in the face to SSG(not that they don't deserve it, but its still insulitng). The second problem is the players who do that tend to be re-designing it entirely around making their niche play-style OP.

I agree that most of the players could do better than the people who aren't playing the game(Devs), but it would take finding the right player who actually understands "this needs to be balanced and work for everyone, not just make my build better."
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #204 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 4:50pm
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It's Sturgeon's Law. Of course if you randomly pick your lvl split, stats, and class distribution, a whole lot of the outcome will be crap.


Its not just the combination, its the trees, classes, weapons, even the feats and spell selections. Many of them are just bad.

Like bows, no reason to use them when you have uber crossbows. THF vs any other melee combat style. Trees like Ninja Spy that are "cool' but bad in reality. Some trees like harper are only good for splashing for a few key abilities but with garbage t5s. Spells like summon monster.
  
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #205 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 5:17pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Aug 31st, 2020 at 4:50pm:
Its not just the combination, its the trees, classes, weapons, even the feats and spell selections. Many of them are just bad.

Like bows, no reason to use them when you have uber crossbows. THF vs any other melee combat style. Trees like Ninja Spy that are "cool' but bad in reality. Some trees like harper are only good for splashing for a few key abilities but with garbage t5s. Spells like summon monster.


Yeah, some things have definitely been left behind. For example, I don't think anyone has comprehended the concept of "stealth" in a very long time. Other trees like Ninja spy or Archmage simply don't get updated.

That being sad though its asking too much for everything to be "good". Some choices simply have to be sub-optimal; balance under a system this complex is next to impossible.

I mean, look at the debates going on this very thread: some players are literally only interested in the highest DPS and nothing else. They don't care that its DnD, fantasy, sci-fi, or old west; none of that makes any difference as long as their character does the most damage every second. And that IS just fine, but thats the kind of mentality designers are up against.

How do you balance flavor vs. utility vs. meta vs. story vs. power? If you're SSG the answer is you don't even try. If you're a good designer you find other ways. The big challenge for a game like DDO is balancing all the different play styles against the sheer number of possibilities.



Let's say I want to improve Ninja Spy. Well, right off the bat, its a primarily stealth-based tree in a game that does not support stealth at-fucking-all, so that's problem the first. Problem the second is this is a tree which works best on a rogue splash, so now you have to look at how it interacts with all things rogue. The list goes on and on.

The best solution would be to stop designing new content so it invalidates old, but thats not likely to happen either.

We're really just up shit creek without a paddle, aren't we?
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #206 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 6:36pm
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That being sad though its asking too much for everything to be "good". Some choices simply have to be sub-optimal; balance under a system this complex is next to impossible.


It doesnt need to be perfect. As an example, greatswords vs falchions. Falchions obviously have a better threat range, but the difference is not THAT big, and paladins have greatsword specific buffs so greatswords have a niche now.

Then you have the gap between inquis and AA or DWS bows, or even inquis and great crossbows. The moment inquis came out, great crossbows became obsolete becuase it was just so much more powerful.

Quote:
Let's say I want to improve Ninja Spy. Well, right off the bat, its a primarily stealth-based tree


Well, assassin is supposed to be a stealth based tree, but it does offer a lot of power in it. So I would look at what makes assassin good and use that as a base to turn it ninja spy into a short sword assassin tree with ki abilities. The first draft could probably be done in a few hours top and then its just tweaking the numbers.

Then I would look at other stuff, for example, is assassin only good if you do VKF? If yes, is there a way you can get ninja spy to count short swords as daggers to qualify for the VKF tree? Does ninja spy need good raid loot short swords to go along with it? Etc, etc.

The main thing holding SSG back from fixing old content is that they just do not want to, shitting out power creep expansions every 2 years takes top priority. It's like if microsoft decided to not fix all the security flaws because almost every programmer they have is working on the next version of windows which will be released every 2 years.

DDO is sadly, one of those IPs that are being held hostage by a shitty company which badly needs someone to buy it and overhaul it...but its also one of those things that never happen in reality.
  
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #207 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 6:51pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Aug 31st, 2020 at 6:36pm:
It doesnt need to be perfect. As an example, greatswords vs falchions. Falchions obviously have a better threat range, but the difference is not THAT big, and paladins have greatsword specific buffs so greatswords have a niche now.

Then you have the gap between inquis and AA or DWS bows, or even inquis and great crossbows. The moment inquis came out, great crossbows became obsolete becuase it was just so much more powerful.


See this right here makes a great case for both the strengths and weakenesses of the game. Prior to inquis regular crossbows were virtually useless. Just look how many named ones there are before sharn. The problem is, instead of "giving them a niche" they made great crossbows(of which there were several) useless.

Meanwhile your Greatsword vs. Falchion comparison is incredibly apt: by itself one is better than the other, but the addition of named items/class specific buffs/etc makes up the difference and gives them both a roll. Its hard to do that with everything, but the system can obviously distinguish between weapon types, so they could at least try.



ManyCookies wrote on Aug 31st, 2020 at 6:36pm:
The main thing holding SSG back from fixing old content is that they just do not want to, shitting out power creep expansions every 2 years takes top priority. It's like if microsoft decided to not fix all the security flaws because almost every programmer they have is working on the next version of windows which will be released every 2 years.

DDO is sadly, one of those IPs that are being held hostage by a shitty company which badly needs someone to buy it and overhaul it...but its also one of those things that never happen in reality.


Its unfortunately a question of cost vs. profit. The game isn't worth very much, but it also doesn't cost that much and despite the gloom and doom SSG IS still making enough money on it. But at this point its a question of how much longer they can keep milking the whales.

The game has simply slid too far down. It was never going to be a WoW-killer; from the start it was destined to be a niche MMO. With the right management and right approach it COULD have been the next Ultima Online, which probably makes more money and gets+keeps more new players than DDO does today. It is now in its 23rd year of operation.

The problem is, like you said: SSG prioritizes short-term gains over long-term survival, milking whales over hooking new players, etc. They'd rather have 1 person spend $500 than 10 people spend $50, because they are too stupid to ask themselves what's going to happen when that 1 person takes his $500 somewhere else.
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #208 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 4:41pm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOz6odiAsLI&t=1s

6-7k base hits in r2 as a melee. 9-10k outside of reaper. Someone nerf these niggas making r2 thth a speed run/dps kobold test.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #209 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 5:34pm
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Relax. They were 1k bases until Teth debuffed the living shit out of the mob. That’s less of a max dps build thing and more of a Teth is a super genius thing.
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
Gunga is the best.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #210 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:15pm
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the_biggest_dog wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:11pm:
agree, its hot but debuffs are a huge part. 

heres a screenie from r10 RTSO to show the difference in damage on debuffed mama drag vs undebuffed air ele

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/554813323108155402/753013920264093786/r...


This media.discordapp.net page can’t be found
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
Gunga is the best.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #211 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:18pm
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agree, dps def hot but debuffs are a huge part.

heres a screenie from r10 RTSO to show the difference in damage on debuffed mama drag vs undebuffed air ele

technical issues please hold.

  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


al ca mist
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #212 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:29pm
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Gunga wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 5:34pm:
Relax. They were 1k bases until Teth debuffed the living shit out of the mob. That’s less of a max dps build thing and more of a Teth is a super genius thing.

Relax. That wasn't even full retard dps set up. I think Gordon can hit like 11k+ outside of reaper.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re:
Reply #213 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:32pm
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Relax. I'm commenting on the video you presented, Scorcese, not some fantasy Big Foot sighting.

Never go full retard.
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
Gunga is the best.
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Reply #214 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:50pm
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Gunga wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 6:32pm:
Relax. I'm commenting on the video you presented, Scorcese, not some fantasy Big Foot sighting.

Never go full retard.

do you want the big foot video, too? I deliver, homie
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #215 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:05pm
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You really must chill. Even your mom doesn't give a shit about your big foot video and she'll fuck anything.
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
Gunga is the best.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #216 - Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:51pm
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Gunga wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:05pm:
You really must chill. Even your mom doesn't give a shit about your big foot video and she'll fuck anything.

that bitch dont count either. has no dps
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #217 - Sep 10th, 2020 at 11:51am
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After reading all that, I still cant believe Rubbinns thinks throwers are the best dps
  
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #218 - Sep 10th, 2020 at 1:49pm
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Who is letting you guys out of the mobos? Why are you even here? You know youre not sheltered by cordovan here, right? It's going to become very bad for you guys here. I'm a very nasty person and this isn't going to end well for any of you...

Make it easier on yourselves and just try to keep your stupid confined to the mobos. I proimise you'll be happier. You guys belong there with your brethren ; Chai, Trudh, Nokowi, Sir Valentine, Haphestus, etc. Sorry if I left your name out but it's a long list of you bads and it's hard to name every roach I squash since you all look and sound alike.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #219 - Sep 10th, 2020 at 4:02pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Who is letting you guys out of the mobos? Why are you even here? You know youre not sheltered by cordovan here, right? It's going to become very bad for you guys here. I'm a very nasty person and this isn't going to end well for any of you...

Make it easier on yourselves and just try to keep your stupid confined to the mobos. I proimise you'll be happier. You guys belong there with your brethren ; Chai, Trudh, Nokowi, Sir Valentine, Haphestus, etc. Sorry if I left your name out but it's a long list of you bads and it's hard to name every roach I squash since you all look and sound alike.


Your eyes twinkle a little bit when you tell bads to diaf.
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
Gunga is the best.
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Re: Best DPS builds in game
Reply #220 - Sep 10th, 2020 at 4:08pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Who is letting you guys out of the mobos? Why are you even here? You know youre not sheltered by cordovan here, right? It's going to become very bad for you guys here. I'm a very nasty person and this isn't going to end well for any of you...

Make it easier on yourselves and just try to keep your stupid confined to the mobos. I proimise you'll be happier. You guys belong there with your brethren ; Chai, Trudh, Nokowi, Sir Valentine, Haphestus, etc. Sorry if I left your name out but it's a long list of you bads and it's hard to name every roach I squash since you all look and sound alike.


Woah, dude. That's not cool. You can threaten to murder people or encourage them to commit suicide or whatever, but don't tell people that they belong together with Chai. That's just mean.
  
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