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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication... (Read 6612 times)
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #50 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 4:37pm
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #51 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 4:40pm
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As per 'usu
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #52 - Sep 24th, 2020 at 10:05am
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Head-Meat wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:23am:
Ok. So, what we need is a better way to input in the design phase. Is there a good way outside of PC?


They don't accept this type of feedback from the PC either.

Also, how Asheras continues to convince the dev team they aren't involved in any of the leaks is beyond me. The only thing I can come up with is that they want them leaking info.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #53 - Sep 24th, 2020 at 10:40am
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kmack wrote on Sep 24th, 2020 at 10:05am:
They don't accept this type of feedback from the PC either.

Also, how Asheras continues to convince the dev team they aren't involved in any of the leaks is beyond me. The only thing I can come up with is that they want them leaking info.



Who let you back in!?


Cheesy

Wish we heard from you more.  Hope you're well.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #54 - Sep 24th, 2020 at 1:30pm
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kmack wrote on Sep 24th, 2020 at 10:05am:
Also, how Asheras continues to convince the dev team they aren't involved in any of the leaks is beyond me. The only thing I can come up with is that they want them leaking info.


The same Asheras on here? That would explain a lot.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #55 - Sep 25th, 2020 at 9:46am
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At this point I hope that whoever was looking into writing a ddo server emulator succeeds so that I can just play on my personal server solo with homebrew settings so that I can unfuck my own play experience.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #56 - Sep 26th, 2020 at 9:51am
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At this point I hope that whoever was looking into writing a ddo server emulator succeeds so that I can just play on my personal server solo with homebrew settings so that I can unfuck my own play experience.


Same.

Hell, I'd be willing to bankroll hosting a public private server. Especially if we were able to actually tweak things properly.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #57 - Sep 26th, 2020 at 12:20pm
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It seems likely a public server with the right settings would be popular enough to stay online with donations only. Might not attract quite as many players but it would be popular.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #58 - Sep 26th, 2020 at 6:53pm
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noamineo wrote on Sep 26th, 2020 at 12:20pm:
It seems likely a public server with the right settings would be popular enough to stay online with donations only. Might not attract quite as many players but it would be popular.


Undoubtedly, the only problem is you'd have way too much division over how the settings should fall.

Here on the vault you've got way too many rose tinted glasses folks that'd pull the SWG Pre-CU card. There are way too many who praise the game before U12 and other arbitrary time cut offs that would be impossible for any current emulator to have the data for.

So you'd have a vocal minority clamoring for older settings, while I'd imagine a larger silent majority would be fine with more SSG-like settings.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #59 - Sep 26th, 2020 at 7:23pm
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Edrein wrote on Sep 26th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Undoubtedly, the only problem is you'd have way too much division over how the settings should fall.

Here on the vault you've got way too many rose tinted glasses folks that'd pull the SWG Pre-CU card. There are way too many who praise the game before U12 and other arbitrary time cut offs that would be impossible for any current emulator to have the data for.

So you'd have a vocal minority clamoring for older settings, while I'd imagine a larger silent majority would be fine with more SSG-like settings.


This is why I'd want my own server.  The game is already single player for the most part,  Put the emulator in a group of docker containers,  and run the game on the pc I'm playing with my own settings would be the dream.  I wouldn't even want to try to run it for other players as my version of good,  would not be other peoples.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #60 - Sep 26th, 2020 at 11:05pm
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i dont play any other MMOs.  but, i get the feeling we have a very large 40+, and probably 50+ age group.  do other MMOs have the same break down?  or mostly younger players?
the 40+ group have more disposable income, and could probably keep a server running.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #61 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 12:18am
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Edrein wrote on Sep 26th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Undoubtedly, the only problem is you'd have way too much division over how the settings should fall.

Here on the vault you've got way too many rose tinted glasses folks that'd pull the SWG Pre-CU card. There are way too many who praise the game before U12 and other arbitrary time cut offs that would be impossible for any current emulator to have the data for.

So you'd have a vocal minority clamoring for older settings, while I'd imagine a larger silent majority would be fine with more SSG-like settings.


I have literally made this exact same argument before several times Tongue Good to find someone who understands.

Personally I think a private server really only needs 2 changes to make 95% of the player-base happy: 1. severely reduced XP costs to level/TR; 2. dramatically improved drop rates.

No one is ever going to "invest" the HUGE HUGE time requirements it takes to get triple-completionist on a private server that could disapear at any second, and where dataloss like the gayfinder event is a very real and ongoing possibility. Its just not going to happen that someone comes along and sinks, what, 5,000 hours to max out a character(I think its a lot more than that, no idea).

So what two things do you change? XP rate and gear-acquisition rate. Let people thunder through the game much faster and actually make alts viable. Yes, a pre-MOTU server would be "nice", but there just aren't enough players to support all the different versions everyone wants.



S_O_B wrote on Sep 26th, 2020 at 11:05pm:
i dont play any other MMOs.  but, i get the feeling we have a very large 40+, and probably 50+ age group.  do other MMOs have the same break down?  or mostly younger players?
the 40+ group have more disposable income, and could probably keep a server running.


So I don't play a lot of MMOs either but I definitely think DDO has a larger population of 40+ players(late 30s, myself). But then figure WoW launched in 2004; and statistically the people most likely to have disposable income for a subscription since then probably started in their early to mid 20s(I know I did). So a typical WoW player who started at launch is going to be approaching 40 now - and there are PLENTY of older players. A friend told me a story about 8 years ago of a friend of his. Guy was older(50s), single, and made a 6-figure income. Besides work, WoW was his entire life. As in, to the point of building a god damn toilet into his gameing chair. Had his whole setup build around just playing WoW like a second job.

However, games like WoW also do require considerably more FPS-style skills, highspeed reactions, etc, which us old folsk aren't great at(ok, I'll admit, I sucked at that when I was young). DDO on the other hand, despite being a twitch game(no, not the streaming service) requires significantly less reaction time to play effectively. I'd wager that's probably a good portion of why it attracts and older player-base; you can have fun and be good at the game with arthritis.

MMOs have always kind of been "grownup games" since they require a sub or at least the ability to make online purchases to really play. As such while you might meet the occasional asshole teenager, their lot is mostly confined to consoles these days. MMOs require your own credit card and all.

I'm done ranting but I will say: I am about to throw away 21 "Power Evidence" trinkets. That is how many TRs I've done in the past couple days.
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #62 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 12:08pm
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Back to OP for a second:

SSG was listening to stuff like this:

First two minutes  or so he goes into the diff between 19 and 20 and advocates “smoothing it out”

https://youtu.be/ayV7haf9AeY
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #63 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 3:11pm
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Head-Meat wrote on Sep 27th, 2020 at 12:08pm:
Back to OP for a second:

SSG was listening to stuff like this:

First two minutes  or so he goes into the diff between 19 and 20 and advocates “smoothing it out”

https://youtu.be/ayV7haf9AeY


Yeah I am the OP and I'm not watching that Tongue
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #64 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 9:59pm
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noamineo wrote on Sep 27th, 2020 at 3:11pm:
Yeah I am the OP and I'm not watching that Tongue



Strimstrom. Whether you like him or not, he’s a high-profile/influential figure. He was talking about leveling a rogue, and how it was getting too hard running reaper at 19. But, as soon as he hit 20, he was unstoppable due to destiny. So, he recommends them “smoothing out” the power, etc.

That’s it basically.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
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*Proud FORCCer*
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #65 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 11:16pm
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Depends what you run.

Heroics scale n/h/e linearly. Newer epics do too more or less, but many older ones do not.  It seems like it the epics that were part of the old epic system have a huge jump in difficulty from H to E. (Obviously R is just E with a % penalty to output).

Going from whatever 18s or 19s on reaper to, for example, House P epics on reaper (level 20 quests) is a huge jump in difficulty even with full EDs. Good luck trying that with nerfed EDs.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #66 - Sep 27th, 2020 at 11:50pm
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Head-Meat wrote on Sep 27th, 2020 at 9:59pm:
Strimstrom. Whether you like him or not, he’s a high-profile/influential figure. He was talking about leveling a rogue, and how it was getting too hard running reaper at 19. But, as soon as he hit 20, he was unstoppable due to destiny. So, he recommends them “smoothing out” the power, etc.

That’s it basically.


Its tough because the game has suffered for so many years from a complete lack of vision.

When most of the current crop of lvl18 content was created, 20 was cap, so it was designed to be the most challenging content in the game. There really isn't "lvl19 content" since no one in there right mind actually takes lvl 19. You take 18, then play at 18 until you have enough XP to cap. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last lvl 18 content released?

Epics is basically a completely different game. That's the way it was designed, otherwise we'd still have class lvls 21+. EDs definitely add a bunch of power right at 20, and that's FINE. You're SUPPOSED to get a bunch of power at 20 because you are EPIC. At least that was the design philosophy.

It's probably time to admit SSG hasn't a clue what they are doing.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #67 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 3:36am
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EDs were a dumb idea in the first place. When people were asking for epic progression, they wanted more class levels. 25 paladin, 25 Sorcerer, 25 monk, etc. (better yet, 20 sorcerer/3 paladin/2 monk) Not commoner levels with a new enhancement system made of power creep. Literally nobody asked for that.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #68 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 4:35am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 28th, 2020 at 3:36am:
EDs were a dumb idea in the first place. When people were asking for epic progression, they wanted more class levels. 25 paladin, 25 Sorcerer, 25 monk, etc. (better yet, 20 sorcerer/3 paladin/2 monk) Not commoner levels with a new enhancement system made of power creep. Literally nobody asked for that.


actually agree with this, i remember the first time i heard about the level cap increase to 25 i wanted to make a 18/7 fvs/sorc
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #69 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 10:51am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 27th, 2020 at 11:16pm:
Depends what you run.

Heroics scale n/h/e linearly. Newer epics do too more or less, but many older ones do not.  It seems like it the epics that were part of the old epic system have a huge jump in difficulty from H to E. (Obviously R is just E with a % penalty to output).

Going from whatever 18s or 19s on reaper to, for example, House P epics on reaper (level 20 quests) is a huge jump in difficulty even with full EDs. Good luck trying that with nerfed EDs.


A couple comments:

1)  Part of that is also that you can't run reaper on quests with a base level of 18/19 when level 20.  So, as a result, you end up getting squeezed.   

If you are used to running the traditional BB way (Quest level +2), then you are running level 16's at level 18, level 17's at level 19, and then when you get to 18's, you have to stay at 19.   When you get to 19's, you are running reaper quests still at level 19.  So the quest difficulty has increased since you were running 17's, but your power level has not.  it will feel a bit squeezed.

2)  The level 18/19 gets you a level 18 core (in a pure or mostly pure build) most of which are pretty tasty.  After that, you need to wait for a capstone.  But, as mentioned above, you won't get it because you have to hold 20.   When you do, that will be the next big "jump".  Even without the ED's. 

I agree the ED's coming in with full twists, and a full 26 ED AP in your active ED is a LOT of power jump at 20/21.   And then it is basically nothing more until you get to level 24 or so (but really 26/27 when the gear and the destiny feats start kicking in). 

This is partly because you get ALL the ED and twists at 20 and most all the feats are 27-30.   It is partly because gear from 20-26 is really lacking.   We are still wearing Sharn ML 15 in a lot of cases.   I think filling in the gear from 20-25 (which has been happening but slowly) would be a part of the solution.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #70 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:01am
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Asheras wrote on Sep 28th, 2020 at 10:51am:
A couple comments:

1)  Part of that is also that you can't run reaper on quests with a base level of 18/19 when level 20.  So, as a result, you end up getting squeezed.   

If you are used to running the traditional BB way (Quest level +2), then you are running level 16's at level 18, level 17's at level 19, and then when you get to 18's, you have to stay at 19.   When you get to 19's, you are running reaper quests still at level 19.  So the quest difficulty has increased since you were running 17's, but your power level has not.  it will feel a bit squeezed.

2)  The level 18/19 gets you a level 18 core (in a pure or mostly pure build) most of which are pretty tasty.  After that, you need to wait for a capstone.  But, as mentioned above, you won't get it because you have to hold 20.   When you do, that will be the next big "jump".  Even without the ED's. 

I agree the ED's coming in with full twists, and a full 26 ED AP in your active ED is a LOT of power jump at 20/21.   And then it is basically nothing more until you get to level 24 or so (but really 26/27 when the gear and the destiny feats start kicking in). 

This is partly because you get ALL the ED and twists at 20 and most all the feats are 27-30.   It is partly because gear from 20-26 is really lacking.   We are still wearing Sharn ML 15 in a lot of cases.   I think filling in the gear from 20-25 (which has been happening but slowly) would be a part of the solution.   


Pretty much all this, but there's also a significant jump in damage and HP from Inspired Quarter and Shavrath to Scroll/Shard/Seal level 20 quests as well, so I think a jump in power is appropriate.
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #71 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:06am
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I'd argue the bigger issue isn't that 18-20 drags a bit, but that 21-26 is pretty lackluster in terms of rewards for leveling.  I'd like to see those levels be more interesting.   Why are all 3 ED feats crammed in at 26, 28, and 29.   Spread those out to 22, 25, 28.    When added to feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30 it means only 23 and 26 have no "adds".  Target 23 and 26 for some really solid loot revamps.  Maybe overhaul MOTU raid loot and the EGH loot and make it all to 23 and the overhaul Shadowfell expansion and Thunderholme loot and make it all ML 26.  (or add new content targeting loot at these two points.   Either way).

That'd be a nice progression thru epics where something interesting is happening at every level. 
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #72 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:23am
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Asheras wrote on Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:06am:
I'd argue the bigger issue isn't that 18-20 drags a bit, but that 21-26 is pretty lackluster in terms of rewards for leveling.  I'd like to see those levels be more interesting.   Why are all 3 ED feats crammed in at 26, 28, and 29.   Spread those out to 22, 25, 28.    When added to feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30 it means only 23 and 26 have no "adds".  Target 23 and 26 for some really solid loot revamps.  Maybe overhaul MOTU raid loot and the EGH loot and make it all to 23 and the overhaul Shadowfell expansion and Thunderholme loot and make it all ML 26.  (or add new content targeting loot at these two points.   Either way).

That'd be a nice progression thru epics where something interesting is happening at every level. 


You know SSG will read that and what they'll hear is "Asheras wants us to level gate Epic Destinies."
  
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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #73 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:27am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 28th, 2020 at 3:36am:
EDs were a dumb idea in the first place. When people were asking for epic progression, they wanted more class levels. 25 paladin, 25 Sorcerer, 25 monk, etc. (better yet, 20 sorcerer/3 paladin/2 monk) Not commoner levels with a new enhancement system made of power creep. Literally nobody asked for that.


This is exactly what I thought we were getting when I first heard about the cap increase, was really excited, and started workshopping new builds. Was really disappointed.
  

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Re: SSG fails at communicating their failure at communication...
Reply #74 - Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:31am
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Asheras wrote on Sep 28th, 2020 at 11:06am:
I'd argue the bigger issue isn't that 18-20 drags a bit, but that 21-26 is pretty lackluster in terms of rewards for leveling.  I'd like to see those levels be more interesting.   Why are all 3 ED feats crammed in at 26, 28, and 29.   Spread those out to 22, 25, 28.    When added to feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30 it means only 23 and 26 have no "adds".  Target 23 and 26 for some really solid loot revamps.  Maybe overhaul MOTU raid loot and the EGH loot and make it all to 23 and the overhaul Shadowfell expansion and Thunderholme loot and make it all ML 26.  (or add new content targeting loot at these two points.   Either way).

That'd be a nice progression thru epics where something interesting is happening at every level. 


This I can agree with. Right now 21-28 is a total gear-desert, drives me up a fuckin wall to be sitting there at 27 wearing my lvl 15 sharn set and lvl 21 borderlands stat boosts. Yeah, if you spend 2+ years farming Lshroud and the one raid with ml26 items you might have enough gear to end the desert at 26, but that's not gonna be true for everyone.

A loot revamp would be nice, but I somehow don't expect it will happen. To busy designing new loot for 31+.
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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