Vault - Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs

AAH

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SSG .. making shit a reality.

Posts: 442
Location: Australia
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Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs
Reply #50 - Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:09pm

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higgildypiggildy wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 11:49am:

It doesn't work for stackable items based on their DB design reflecting the UI design. A stackable item is one single row, with a count on it, it will have also have a unique ID

Buy a Box

Name	Count	UniqueID
Heroic Box	1	1
Heroic Box	1	2

you then combine those 2 into 1 in the UI

Name	Count	UniqueID
Heroic Box	2	?????

what does in the UniqueID field? it's setup to only contain a single value.
that's the problem with them tracking it.

if boxes were non stackable then it would work

Agreed. I was making an assumption about the design and you are certainly correct.

My mind was thinking each item was always an individual record and stacks are presented to the client as a result of a count(?) statement.

It would certainly be far more efficient to not keep an individual record for each item, no argument there.

Gunga wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 9:31am:

This game doesn’t deserve great players, honestly.

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AAH DQ Assaulter Offline SSG .. making shit a reality. Posts: 442 Location: Australia Joined: Jul 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #51 - Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:33pm	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:09pm: Agreed. I was making an assumption about the design and you are certainly correct. My mind was thinking each item was always an individual record and stacks are presented to the client as a result of a count(?) statement. It would certainly be far more efficient to not keep an individual record for each item, no argument there. I might follow on for a moment given I can't edit this. If I had some say in the database I'd probably be keen to push the case at management for individual records for store items. It sort of ties in with an old conversation on the vault somewhere discussing whether boxes could/would have value in dollar terms. It would be akin to receipting each item should there ever be a need for valuation or refunding or whatever. There's a whole bunch of ideas and subjective guessing about the database as it is and I certainly don't mean to sound as though I have any authoritative idea what is in place or what should be in place. Database design is not my speciality and it's been 18 years since I've had to be involved with that aspect of computing. I appreciate how there is a lot of skilled techie voices in the vault and it's always enjoyable to see nerdy discussions like this thread.

	Gunga wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 9:31am: This game doesn’t deserve great players, honestly.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #52 - Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:44pm	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:33pm: It sort of ties in with an old conversation on the vault somewhere discussing whether boxes could/would have value in dollar terms. It would be akin to receipting each item should there ever be a need for valuation or refunding or whatever. The Terms of Service actually explicitly states that in-game items have no cash value. I suspect this is actually part of why you have to buy "points" and then spend the points to buy actual store items - by not assigning a dollar value to the store items SSG legally never has to refund any money. While it DOES make sense they should be keeping better track of the items to prevent this sort of problem, the boxes have no real-money value.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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AAH DQ Assaulter Offline SSG .. making shit a reality. Posts: 442 Location: Australia Joined: Jul 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #53 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:44pm: The Terms of Service actually explicitly states that in-game items have no cash value. I suspect this is actually part of why you have to buy "points" and then spend the points to buy actual store items - by not assigning a dollar value to the store items SSG legally never has to refund any money. While it DOES make sense they should be keeping better track of the items to prevent this sort of problem, the boxes have no real-money value. Yes I recall the great debate about the ToS. I see points as a similar thing to gift cards. If I buy a fridge using a gift card, does that fridge no longer have a cash value. Does it void the warranty and/or refund policy because it was purchased with a gift card. They say 'no cash value' knowing it would take a legal team and a load of money to challenge it. Not gonna happen. The thing is, if they said items purchased do have a cash value then the could actually kick some serious butt. In Australia a gift card effectively has no cash value unless it can be proven the card cannot be reasonably used. Such as me receiving a gift card for a female only gym.

	Gunga wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 9:31am: This game doesn’t deserve great players, honestly.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #54 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:18am	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: I see points as a similar thing to gift cards. You* may see points as similar to gift cards, SSG(and really every game using such a system) does not. Nor does the law recognize them as being "the same as gift cards". There's also a huge distinction between digital items and physical items. IE, mcdonalds dollars that can be exchanged for food vs. in-app points that can be exchanged for pretend digital goods. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: If I buy a fridge using a gift card, does that fridge no longer have a cash value. Does it void the warranty and/or refund policy because it was purchased with a gift card. So this is again where gift cards differ from DDO points. Depending on the store, you can usually buy something with a gift card, then return it for cash. Whether or not you can is a matter of store policy. Giftcard theft is also a serious issue. At weddings in particular its not at all uncommon for the happy couple to receive thousands of dollars in gift cards, which are usually all dropped into one bag for convenience... which someone else could walk off with. That's still considered grand theft even though technically the cards have no cash value. Now, in your refrigerator example, the item isa physical thing that exists and is in your possession(being 9/10ths of the law), which means you can turn around and sell it to a third party for cash and the store you bought it from has no say. This actually used to be a huge problem for online games(and still is in some coughEVEcough). In the wild west days of Ultima Online and the original EverQuest, the concept of items being 'bound' hadn't been invented yet. This was great for the in-game economy since you could potentially buy the best item in the game with enough gold/platinum/cow nuts/whatever. Alternatively, you could head over to eBay.com, where in 1999 a large house and 3 high level characters could be bought for about $400 USD. EverQuest raid loot? $50-60. You name it, there were actually categories on eBay for buying and selling MMO items. The game developers did not much care for this sort of thing for many reasons, and thus "bound to character" was invented. That's also when ToSs started putting in things like "No cash value" AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: They say 'no cash value' knowing it would take a legal team and a load of money to challenge it. Not gonna happen. You clicked "accept" on that ToS, would take some powerful lawyering to challenge that. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: The thing is, if they said items purchased do have a cash value then the could actually kick some serious butt. Well, no, they couldn't. Lol, ahhh... its a double-edged sword. Let's say each otto's box is officially valued at $50. Its in the ToS(the imaginary one). So along comes a player who dupes 5,000 of them. Ok, SSG wants to sue them for $250,000. On that player is KNN, an unemployed looser living in a Puerto Rican slum. The court can say whatever they want, but there's no fucking way KNN is ever going to pay you that 250k. He is judgement-proof. Let's play another hypothetical: Allice buys 10 ottos from the store for $500. Then bob comes along and hacks Allice's account! If the boxes are worth $500, then SSG now owes Allice $500. How about an extreme example? Joe is a Saudi Prince who looooooooooves DDO and has functionally unlimited money(yes, this is a real thing, where do you think truly P2W games make their money?). Joe also really, really, really sucks at the game. So, Joe pulled out a fat stack of his oil money and bought 111 heroic boxes, 56 epic boxes, and 56 improved epic boxes to get all racial, iconic, and heroic past lives(ok my math is probably off but Joe isn't a very bright kid) 223 boxes @ $50 a box comes out to a bit over $11,000. Now lets say someone calls Joe a towelhead in game, he looses his shit, and gets banned. But since Joe has a ton of money, he can sue SSG for that $11,000 because the boxes have value. That last one was a bit extreme, but lets play another(that has actually happened, though not to SSG). Little Timmy really wants to be powerful in DDO, so he sneaks into mom's purse and steals her credit card, maxes it out on boxes, eats all of them. (this exact scenario happens with cellphone games All. The. Fucking. Time.). Under the current ToS SSG is not obligated to refund the purchase because the points and anything bought with them have no cash value. If they change things so that they do, now SSG is reasonably on the hook for bad parenting. All of these scenarios are much more likely than someone with the actual financial means to make restitution duping a bunch of ottos boxes. Those sorts of people don't dupe ottos boxes. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: In Australia a gift card effectively has no cash value unless it can be proven the card cannot be reasonably used. Such as me receiving a gift card for a female only gym. So this is not eant as an attack or anything, I'm just curious about aussie-law. Lets say you bought a bunch of DDO points and then SSG banned your account. Would that constitute proof that the points cannot be reasonably used? This is interesting because if you can make the case that points do indeed "count" as giftcards than under applicable laws that opens up all sorts of interesting loopholes.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Justanotherlurker Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 384 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #55 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:47am	Print Post
	Yes in many countries if the account is banned the user is entitled to a refund on their digital currency (see EA and the FUT bans) In the EU digital purchases are “owned” and consumers have a right to resale and companies have an obligation to provide that facility eg Valve has to allow a user to sell steam games second hand.


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Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 300 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #56 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 5:30am	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:19am: *In Australia a gift card effectively has no cash value unless it can be proven the card cannot be reasonably used. Such as me receiving a gift card for a female only gym. In today's world, you could just tell the gym you're a woman and they would have to accept it. Can't ask for proof these days.


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AAH DQ Assaulter Offline SSG .. making shit a reality. Posts: 442 Location: Australia Joined: Jul 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #57 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:18am: Let's say each otto's box is officially valued at $50. Its in the ToS(the imaginary one). So along comes a player who dupes 5,000 of them. Ok, SSG wants to sue them for $250,000. On that player is KNN, an unemployed looser living in a Puerto Rican slum. The court can say whatever they want, but there's no fucking way KNN is ever going to pay you that 250k. He is judgement-proof. Let's play another hypothetical: Allice buys 10 ottos from the store for $500. Then bob comes along and hacks Allice's account! If the boxes are worth $500, then SSG now owes Allice $500. How about an extreme example? Joe is a Saudi Prince who looooooooooves DDO and has functionally unlimited money(yes, this is a real thing, where do you think truly P2W games make their money?). Joe also really, really, really sucks at the game. So, Joe pulled out a fat stack of his oil money and bought 111 heroic boxes, 56 epic boxes, and 56 improved epic boxes to get all racial, iconic, and heroic past lives(ok my math is probably off but Joe isn't a very bright kid) 223 boxes @ $50 a box comes out to a bit over $11,000. Now lets say someone calls Joe a towelhead in game, he looses his shit, and gets banned. But since Joe has a ton of money, he can sue SSG for that $11,000 because the boxes have value. That last one was a bit extreme, but lets play another(that has actually happened, though not to SSG). Little Timmy really wants to be powerful in DDO, so he sneaks into mom's purse and steals her credit card, maxes it out on boxes, eats all of them. (this exact scenario happens with cellphone games All. The. Fucking. Time.). Under the current ToS SSG is not obligated to refund the purchase because the points and anything bought with them have no cash value. If they change things so that they do, now SSG is reasonably on the hook for bad parenting. All of these scenarios are much more likely than someone with the actual financial means to make restitution duping a bunch of ottos boxes. Those sorts of people don't dupe ottos boxes. So this is not eant as an attack or anything, I'm just curious about aussie-law. Lets say you bought a bunch of DDO points and then SSG banned your account. Would that constitute proof that the points cannot be reasonably used? This is interesting because if you can make the case that points do indeed "count" as giftcards than under applicable laws that opens up all sorts of interesting loopholes. First up, what's a KNN? True they'd never get their money but it's more about the power of determent. If the breach is serious enough, there's always jail time. That has been the result in cases of software pirating so that acts as a determent to others. With in-game items I'm guessing it's still an untested area in a legal sense. Only big time pirates get their arse kicked so I'd imagine it would have to be duplication on a fkn grand scale to warrant court time. I like the examples. In the case of account theft then I'd expect the ToS to cover SSG's liability in such cases. We see this with credit cards and the liability of the card provider if said card gets stolen/lost and the owner hasn't reported it within a set time period. Protecting your assets is your responsibility and all that. In all cases the ToS and EULA would need to be expanded on to prevent liability to SSG. This is why there's a huge warning about the risk of seizures playing DDO in the EULA. The same EULA states that as a result of permanent account termination you lose everything and no refund is possible. It states the same if they decide to pull the game completely. So yeah, adding a cash value to some items would be a right royal pain in the butt and probably completely unnecessary. My bad. Also in the EULA is the jurisdiction that the laws apply and it ain't Australia. lol. So if I got banned then I would need to raise the case in the U.S.A.

	Gunga wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 9:31am: This game doesn’t deserve great players, honestly.
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Justanotherlurker Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 384 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #58 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 7:05am	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: Also in the EULA is the jurisdiction that the laws apply and it ain't Australia. lol. So if I got banned then I would need to raise the case in the U.S.A. This one is not true. Local laws will supersede the EULA where there is a conflict. Its the price of agreeing to trade with those countries. SSG could withdraw their service from Australia but while they have Australian players they have to obey Australian Consumer law.


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AAH DQ Assaulter Offline SSG .. making shit a reality. Posts: 442 Location: Australia Joined: Jul 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #59 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 10:49am	Print Post
	Justanotherlurker wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 7:05am: This one is not true. Local laws will supersede the EULA where there is a conflict. Its the price of agreeing to trade with those countries. SSG could withdraw their service from Australia but while they have Australian players they have to obey Australian Consumer law. Hmm I think yes and no. If I cancel my sub (for example) then yeah, I'm entitled to a partial refund for the unused portion under the ACL despite Daybreak stating "Subscriptions are nonrefundable." Even then I would have to request an account closure ahead of the end of subscription so that there was in fact an unused time portion. That's a fairly straight forward situation but if I get banned, then that's because I breached the EULA I agreed to so I have no right of claim for a refund. The issue would be proving the ban was unjustified and that would have to take place according to the appropriate jurisdiction. It's beyond the ACL and nothing to do with it. An interesting situation is happening with Thelanis and the intermittent chat function. This function could be deemed part of the service provided (and is labelled as such in the ToS) and now that it's proven unreliable, would that grant me a right to claim a refund on any remaining sub time. I would expect as a condition of the negotiation on the claim that the account would have to be closed. That would be fair, but then I would have to start over.

	Gunga wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 9:31am: This game doesn’t deserve great players, honestly.
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Justanotherlurker Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 384 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #60 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 11:39am	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 10:49am: That's a fairly straight forward situation but if I get banned, then that's because I breached the EULA I agreed to so I have no right of claim for a refund. The issue would be proving the ban was unjustified and that would have to take place according to the appropriate jurisdiction. It's beyond the ACL and nothing to do with it. The EULA is likely to be upheld even locally when it is considered "reasonable" and does not directly contradict local laws. You do not have to prove the ban is unjustified if the Local Law states that Consumers are entitled to a refund when Goods or Services they paid for is denied to them. In the specific case of Australia I have no knowledge if this is the case. Again see EA and FIFA points. Where SSG will be probably be ok is that unless you are an enormous whale it probably isnt worth taking them to court. And there is not enough non-US players to lead to a group action.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9985 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #61 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 11:54am	Print Post
	Technomage wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 12:50pm: I have the know-how to become my own Tier 3 provider/ISP. It's not THAT hard. Oh, since I have the same know how, I agree that it's not that hard to become a Tier 3 Carrier/ISP. Once you have the money. Technomage wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 2:20pm: I've been in IT for over 23 years now. You pick up lots of things along the way in addition to all the certifications. 26 in Telecoms in my case... moving from Public Exchange Commissioning ( PSTN ) to Mobile ( 2G, 3G, 4G ) to OSS ( that's the systems used to manage the network and find which equipments has some alarms ) to BSS ( that's the systems that consolidate all the call informations so that the call can be billed to the right person. That's also where prepaid cards are managed ) to IP Networks ( at ISP/Carrier level, Enterprise level LAN is for the wimps ). I have picked up and forgotten many things along the way.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Bishop Stormreaver Piker Offline Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky. Posts: 651 Joined: Oct 24^th, 2018	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #62 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 1:04pm	Print Post
	Not that this isn't all just fascinating, but you have done enough to draw out the French fellow to spew technobabble again. What we need now is Snu Snu to hop in and tell everyone they don't know anything and everything they know he knew before them so it is really him knowing. Although I suppose I would rather the endless IT nerd boasting to more talk of cheating.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #63 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:18pm	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: First up, what's a KNN? An idiot who spammed the vault for over a year, repeating wild stories about being an ultra rich playboy with a huge dick. He was eventually outed as living in a slum in Puerto Rico where we discovered he had been fired from hisjob at McDonalds for spending too much time on his tablet. Crazy asshat was making dozens of posts an hour. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: True they'd never get their money but it's more about the power of determent. Except for the part where it will COST ssg a metric fuckton. You're looking at $30-40k to sue someone who lives in the same state their studio is based out of. JUST suing someone in another state in the US? Tack on an extra 10-20k for travel expenses. This all for a case they will probably not be able to win and I am seriously low-balling those numbers. International lawsuit? Forget about it. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: If the breach is serious enough, there's always jail time. I wager it would be fairly difficult to convince a court to send someone to prison for cheating at a video game, but it would be FUCKING HILARIOUS. "What are you in for?" "...cheating in an MMO." I'm not sayin it'll get ya shanked, but you're definitely getting picked last for prison kick-ball. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: That has been the result in cases of software pirating so that acts as a determent to others. Software piracy is a very different beast. Many years back I was actually working for a company that got in hot water for pirating ~300 some odd seats of Microsoft Windows. The main thing with software piracy is usually that the person using it has to have been earning money with the use of your pirated software(eg a business that pirates a copy of windows is in a lot more trouble than a private user on their home computer). The damages are then awarded according to the value of the software. These things usually don't go to court, as any profitable business would rather shell out a big fee to the software company than pay their lawyers a bunch of money AND end up paying the same fees. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: With in-game items I'm guessing it's still an untested area in a legal sense. Its not untested; the law is very clear. The ToS states the items have no value and is a legally-binding document. What has not been tested is a game going the other direction, but games are extremely hesitant to do this for a wide variety of reasons, not the least of which being the gigantic legal clusterfuck it would create and how much more it would cost them on just regular day to day shit, vs. potentially stopping rules infractions. Keeping in mind: let's say someone in Moldova dupes a bunch of boxes. Moldova will not cooperate with America to send MURDERERS back for trial. Just try and imagine how they'll react when someone wants to sue one of their citizens over something that happened in a video game. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: Only big time pirates get their arse kicked so I'd imagine it would have to be duplication on a fkn grand scale to warrant court time. The big-time pirates like The Pirate Bay founders get dinged for copyright violation, completely different crime. Basiclly making and distributing illegal copies of copyrighted material, very different from using said material. It would be next to impossible to argue with a straight face that duplicating items in a video game counts as a violation of copyright. The theft argument(if they are stated to have a cash value) is a little easier to get off theground, but copyrights just don't work that way. Even the guys making actual websites advertising their dupes can't really be considered as having violated copyright law as it falls under fair use(otherwise every DDO fan site would be guilty of the same). Now anything is possible with enough lawyers and a lot of money, but SSG has neither of those things. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: I like the examples. In the case of account theft then I'd expect the ToS to cover SSG's liability in such cases. We see this with credit cards and the liability of the card provider if said card gets stolen/lost and the owner hasn't reported it within a set time period. Protecting your assets is your responsibility and all that. And that is why its in SSG's best interest to insist in-game items do not have a real-world value. Accounts getting hacked or items being stolen is(or really should be) far and away more common than item duplication cheats, so in the long run more money is being saved by just saying "they aren't worth anything". AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: In all cases the ToS and EULA would need to be expanded on to prevent liability to SSG. This is why there's a huge warning about the risk of seizures playing DDO in the EULA. The same EULA states that as a result of permanent account termination you lose everything and no refund is possible. It states the same if they decide to pull the game completely. So then you start going down the rabbit hole where the length of the EULA spirals out of control. "Items have a cash value, but SSG is not liable for their replacement in the following circumstances..." and you end up with a EULA longer than the first few Harry Potter books. I don't know exactly what the magic number is, but at least a few court cases have been won simply by the defendant demonstrating it was unreasonable for the company to expect someone to thoroughly read 100,000 words of complex legalize before using their software. EULAs are kind of a double-edged sword. A lot of the legal system is based around the concepts of what a "reasonable person" would do. The current DDO EULA is a bit under 7,000 words long. That sounds like a lot, but its not unreasonable to expect someone to read through that. If it were 70,000 words long? SSG's own lawyer is gonna charge extra just to have to skim that shit. AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: So yeah, adding a cash value to some items would be a right royal pain in the butt and probably completely unnecessary. My bad. Also in the EULA is the jurisdiction that the laws apply and it ain't Australia. lol. So if I got banned then I would need to raise the case in the U.S.A. Yeah EULAs are kind of paper-thin. Ultimately pretty much everything comes down to which side has the more expensive lawyers. There was a case recently involving a kid selling cheats in one of those highly competitive online games(i forget/don't care which one). You know, the kind people call "e"sports with a straight face, somehow? They "settled out of court" which here means the kid was forced to knock it off and his family made to sign something legally binding saying he wouldn't do it again. The kid only made something like $27,000 on it, the company spent 4 times that on legal fees when, at most, they could have only gotten the 27k. And that's if the kids parents didn't fight the suit; if they had also had hundreds of thousands to spend on lawyers, they could easily have won.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #64 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:21pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 11:54am: I have picked up and forgotten many things along the way. Same.

	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #65 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:27pm	Print Post
	Bishop wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 1:04pm: but you have done enough to draw out the French fellow to spew technobabble again. Hey, no complaining. This thread literally started with a bunch of technobabble

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #66 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:32pm	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 6:30am: True they'd never get their money but it's more about the power of determent. If the breach is serious enough, there's always jail time. That has been the result in cases of software pirating so that acts as a determent to others. With in-game items I'm guessing it's still an untested area in a legal sense. Only big time pirates get their arse kicked so I'd imagine it would have to be duplication on a fkn grand scale to warrant court time. No one has ever been arrested and convicted of duping in an MMO in any country ever. All of the "you cheated in this game" lawsuits have involved IP violations for monkeying with the game's code. If you are just using the base code of the game, the most that SSG can do is ban you. ...which is still plenty to keep me from doing shit on my account because I like my account. But the idea that SSG can or would take legal action against a duper or that a duper might somehow go to prison is just dumb.


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higgildypiggildy Stormreaver Piker Offline I just mock the world Posts: 660 Joined: Dec 8^th, 2011	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #67 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:54pm	Print Post
	AAH wrote on Oct 1^st, 2020 at 10:33pm: If I had some say in the database I'd probably be keen to push the case at management for individual records for store items. The issue probably goes back to initial design and the implementation of stacks with how it interacts with the front end, the limits on stacks to represent "reality" and inventory management. Changing that bit of how inventory works would be very hard to do. Major ticket items like Otto's boxes should have never been stackable and they should have had GUIDs (or other uniquifiers) tied to them. That's what's wrong

	I ain't got no mothafukkinsignature
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #68 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:01pm	Print Post
	higgildypiggildy wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 2:54pm: Major ticket items like Otto's boxes should have never been stackable and they should have had GUIDs (or other uniquifiers) tied to them. That's what's wrong They were made stackable because of SSG's insanely poor marketing decisions. Rather than simply having it be "always available", they sell them as "special, limited time offer!" items. This encourages people to buy more. And whales would not buy 100 boxes if they were not stackable(and yes, there are people who legit bought 100 boxes in one go).

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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higgildypiggildy Stormreaver Piker Offline I just mock the world Posts: 660 Joined: Dec 8^th, 2011	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #69 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:08pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:01pm: Rather than simply having it be "always available", they sell them as "special, limited time offer!" items. That marketing model is a proven one to generate more sales, creating artificial scarcity works. People buy now to avoid FOMO. There is probably a point where the cyclic availability should probably become permanent avalability, I'm not marketing savvy enough to know what that is or what metrics you would use to determine it.

	I ain't got no mothafukkinsignature
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #70 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	higgildypiggildy wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:08pm: That marketing model is a proven one to generate more sales, creating artificial scarcity works. People buy now to avoid FOMO. There is probably a point where the cyclic availability should probably become permanent avalability, I'm not marketing savvy enough to know what that is or what metrics you would use to determine it. That model also caused this duping wave, so the take away is it works if your game code isn't shit?

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #71 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:13pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:09pm: That model also caused this duping wave, The sheer expense ($50) per box also has something to do with why people dupe them.

	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #72 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:19pm	Print Post
	Technomage wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:13pm: The sheer expense ($50) per box also has something to do with why people dupe them. Nah, we established they're not worth anything j/k, couldn't resist. Also, from the motherboards thread on the duping: Quote: I am also closing the thread. We do not need further discussion about what people think my ability to resolve a specific exploit issue is. Trust us when we say that this remains a top priority, and work both has been done and will be done to ensure that everyone has the best possible game experience. I think jerry is a little butt-hurt.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #73 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 4:19pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 3:19pm: Nah, we established they're not worth anything j/k, couldn't resist. Also, from the motherboards thread on the duping: I think jerry is a little butt-hurt. I would never even IMPLY Jerry had any ability to curb, much less fix, duping. Many of people on the DDO Forums are complete morons.

	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9014 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Do not buy from the idiots posting LFMs Reply #74 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 4:38pm	Print Post
	Technomage wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 4:19pm: I would never even IMPLY Jerry had any ability to curb, much less fix, duping. I think that was the problem. (everyone implying he couldn't do jack shit). Technomage wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 4:19pm: Many of people on the DDO Forums are complete morons. Yes.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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