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Player's Council Application Open (Read 7065 times)

noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #50 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 4:50pm: that could be interesting. That much crazy pitted against jerry's amount of stupid... I think I'd pay to watch that.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1004 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #51 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 6:07pm	Print Post
	I applied for shits and giggles. Not like they're going to unban me and then readd me to the PC anyway, but who knows. Maybe they want critics on board this time.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #52 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 10:26pm	Print Post
	That's the spirit!

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #53 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 9:34am	Print Post
	Quote: Why does this myth of ssg needing to login to accounts exist. If they want to look at your account they just run some sql. I know database work isn't sexy but its the foundation of things like mmo's where you need to store all the player data on a server. Yeah SQL is complicated and I'd likely need my reference book to do it, but sit me down at a terminal that has access and I guarantee I could write the query to look at just about anything on your account. If they were willing an able to automate it, they could just scan every active account whenever there's an exploit rumor, then they would have caught every duper with big stacks of rare BtC items. Instead most dupers walked away from dupapalooza scot-free,...but the ones who drew the attention of the Eye of Sauron to themselves got to have their guildies watch as their banned account logged in and a Turbine stooge manually deleted their entire inventory.

	Build links Endgame Gear Guide Cannith Crafting Planner link Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
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Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 301 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #54 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 10:25am	Print Post
	Always amazed/fascinated by who got caught duping and who didn't. I know for a fact that Turbine/SSG played favorites and only banned some people. There was a guy in my old guild around the time of the dupapalooza and card duping who gave everyone in the guild hundreds of cards plus whatever ingredients or mats you wanted. Same guy would TR every day, sometimes twice a day. Saw him running with Fat Jerry on his Wed livestream more than once. Never got banned, even when it was dead obvious he was doing it. On the other hand, there was a guy in another guild who got tagged and banned because he was passing ingredient bags back and forth with other people. Its not random when certain people get over and others get tagged.


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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #55 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 11:02am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 9:34am: If they were willing an able to automate it, they could just scan every active account whenever there's an exploit rumor, then they would have caught every duper with big stacks of rare BtC items. Instead most dupers walked away from dupapalooza scot-free,...but the ones who drew the attention of the Eye of Sauron to themselves got to have their guildies watch as their banned account logged in and a Turbine stooge manually deleted their entire inventory. Wait people witnessed banned toons logging in and taking actions? Lol, ok, maybe I was giving SSG too much credit. I assumed they had someone as competent as me. Maybe that's asking too much.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #56 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 11:48am	Print Post
	Quote: Wait people witnessed banned toons logging in and taking actions? Lol, ok, maybe I was giving SSG too much credit. I assumed they had someone as competent as me. Maybe that's asking too much. They can hire like 8 stooges for the price of 1 Charon. You have to think like SSG.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #57 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 11:56am	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 11:48am: They can hire like 8 stooges for the price of 1 Charon. You have to think like SSG. The sad thing is while I have the background to do it, I'm not experienced in it. Which means I'd be slow etc etc while I built experience doing it. It's just sad, I don't consider my knowledge to be anything special. Just average for someone with my interests.


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Dragonborn Shroud Slacker Offline Savaging the masses... one dumbfuck at a time Posts: 1243 Joined: Jul 25^th, 2020	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #58 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 1:32pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 9:34am: If they were willing an able to automate it, they could just scan every active account whenever there's an exploit rumor, then they would have caught every duper with big stacks of rare BtC items. Instead most dupers walked away from dupapalooza scot-free,...but the ones who drew the attention of the Eye of Sauron to themselves got to have their guildies watch as their banned account logged in and a Turbine stooge manually deleted their entire inventory. They haven't done that in years, on the rare instance they do hand out a ban they just lock out the account now.

	noamineo wrote on Dec 24^th, 2021 at 12:04pm: Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy. OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26^th, 2021 at 6:03am: Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9986 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #59 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:01pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 9:34am: If they were willing an able to automate it, they could just scan every active account whenever there's an exploit rumor, then they would have caught every duper with big stacks of rare BtC items. Instead most dupers walked away from dupapalooza scot-free,...but the ones who drew the attention of the Eye of Sauron to themselves got to have their guildies watch as their banned account logged in and a Turbine stooge manually deleted their entire inventor For that they'd need a real DBA... the one they had got fired in one of the early layoff rounds after F2P. Quote: Wait people witnessed banned toons logging in and taking actions? That's how they have to do it, take over an account and log with all the characters, because they have no other option... no DBA ( and they probably don't even have the database structure by now... and since no DBA they are unable to rebuild it ) Quote: The sad thing is while I have the background to do it, I'm not experienced in it. Which means I'd be slow etc etc while I built experience doing it. That's basically how you build your skills in a specific domain... at first you'll be slow and maybe make a few errors, but that's expected from somebody new in the domain, and then you get competency and assurance and start being the local god in that domain. Some companies expect that and hires accordingly, others just want the local god in that domain ready to be godlike and hire accordingly ( paying the price for that godhood because experts are not cheap, especially when it comes to databases )

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #60 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:01pm: For that they'd need a real DBA... the one they had got fired in one of the early layoff rounds after F2P. That's how they have to do it, take over an account and log with all the characters, because they have no other option... no DBA ( and they probably don't even have the database structure by now... and since no DBA they are unable to rebuild it ) That's basically how you build your skills in a specific domain... at first you'll be slow and maybe make a few errors, but that's expected from somebody new in the domain, and then you get competency and assurance and start being the local god in that domain. Some companies expect that and hires accordingly, others just want the local god in that domain ready to be godlike and hire accordingly ( paying the price for that godhood because experts are not cheap, especially when it comes to databases ) Fuck I didn't realize SSG is in such poor shape. Hell it makes me wonder if the lag problem is the database is dumpster fire and it can't query shit in time.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #61 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm	Print Post
	Quote: The sad thing is while I have the background to do it, I'm not experienced in it. Which means I'd be slow etc etc while I built experience doing it. It's just sad, I don't consider my knowledge to be anything special. Just average for someone with my interests. Anyone can learn enough SQL to do basic database querries. jerry could be taught to do it. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but the average 5th grader could be taught to write SQL queries. The problem is the typical paradox: need experience to get a job, need a job to get experience. Despite database administration being a largely "learn on the job" field, any posting SSG would put out would require experience. Anyone with experience could get a better job. Flav wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:01pm: For that they'd need a real DBA... the one they had got fired in one of the early layoff rounds after F2P. Flav, you've worked in technology for a while(in your case telco), have you noticed how under-appreciated DBAs tend to be? Its like being the guy who cleans the sewer: everything turns to shit without you, but no one knows what you do or that you even exist. Flav wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:01pm: That's how they have to do it, take over an account and log with all the characters, because they have no other option... no DBA ( and they probably don't even have the database structure by now... and since no DBA they are unable to rebuild it ) The database structure still exists, its just no one knows it. Also we can assume its a random series of kludges and go-tos Flav wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:01pm: That's basically how you build your skills in a specific domain... at first you'll be slow and maybe make a few errors, but that's expected from somebody new in the domain, and then you get competency and assurance and start being the local god in that domain. Some companies expect that and hires accordingly, others just want the local god in that domain ready to be godlike and hire accordingly ( paying the price for that godhood because experts are not cheap, especially when it comes to databases ) And some companies are like SSG and just leave the job empty because they expect a god but can only pay in Arbies gift cards.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #62 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:19pm	Print Post
	Quote: Fuck I didn't realize SSG is in such poor shape. Hell it makes me wonder if the lag problem is the database is dumpster fire and it can't query shit in time. Its not going to be down to "just" the database. We suspect the majority of the issue was the extremely poor transition from bare-metal to virtual servers(though opinions diverge as to exactly how that caused the problem). The database being badly maintained and pourly thought out to begin with is part of it. Here's the entertaining thing: SSG knew when they sat down to build the game that it was eventually going to scale at least to 20(I believe cap was 10 at launch?) yet they appear to have only designed everything to scale to level 10. Its like every level increase, every power increase, every new thing they try to do - no effort was ever made to accommodate it. The game has no future-proofing.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #63 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:21pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm: The database structure still exists, its just no one knows it. I think the worry is that they've probably added in tables etc that don't need to exist, as a cludge for the fact that they don't know the structure well. noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm: And some companies are like SSG and just leave the job empty because they expect a god but can only pay in Arbies gift cards. Don't you mean subway?


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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #64 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:34pm	Print Post
	Quote: I think the worry is that they've probably added in tables etc that don't need to exist, as a cludge for the fact that they don't know the structure well. I would have edited, but... I think the other problem is without a dba performing needed proper maint, inserts, deletes, and other changes could have wrecked havok on Indexes. Though that's part I'm weaker on. I think that shit indexes on a large scale result in slow databases.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #65 - Feb 4^th, 2021 at 4:04pm	Print Post
	Quote: I think the worry is that they've probably added in tables etc that don't need to exist, as a cludge for the fact that they don't know the structure well. Quote: Don't you mean subway? Cordo gets paid in subway, you think he'd accept some filthy dba being paid better than him? Quote: [quote author=5A71786B7677190 link=1611958065/63#63 date=1612470081] I think the worry is that they've probably added in tables etc that don't need to exist, as a cludge for the fact that they don't know the structure well. I would have edited, but... I think the other problem is without a dba performing needed proper maint, inserts, deletes, and other changes could have wrecked havok on Indexes. Though that's part I'm weaker on. I think that shit indexes on a large scale result in slow databases. Just given the size of the operation and the complexity of the systems, its a guarantee they have someone on staff who knows the database well enough to do(or automate) the shit work. That person however undoubtedly has other duties and only gets called in when it breaks. Its all a cost/benefit thing: the guy who can check your account for boxes using SQL doesn't get paid enough to do it.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9986 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #66 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:44pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm: Anyone can learn enough SQL to do basic database querries. jerry could be taught to do it. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but the average 5th grader could be taught to write SQL queries. noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm: Flav, you've worked in technology for a while(in your case telco), have you noticed how under-appreciated DBAs tend to be? Its like being the guy who cleans the sewer: everything turns to shit without you, but no one knows what you do or that you even exist. since I did make do as a Sybase DBA for years on scrapped on skills, and went beyond basic SQL querries ( there's a few of my weird querries hidden in the Vault history... for simplcity sakes lets just say that SQL querries spanning two databases and numerous tables to just spew out a single mobile phone number ( 10 digit ) that might have service interraction issues during a migration. ( even if there was about 0% chances for it to happen it had to be checked ). While I've been in telco for all my career, I've moved away from the old grand dad telephone tech something like more than 20 years ago. In the meantime I've done server stuff ( of the kind that display alarms in a list on a big walls in a supervision center, of the kind that can locate you while you walk in the stree [ nowadays 1meter or less range, in the early day it was a 100 meter ring in a 30km disk] , to systems that allows you to make internal phone calls with your mobile with short numbers within your company...; and to IP ( ISP/Carrier Grade ) ) But I still remember ( vaguely ) how installing, testing and putting in service a good old telecom exchange ( read : circuit switched, PSTN ) was done. but that's not the point. I agree any monkey that can read can learn basic SQL. It takes a few more brain cells to go beyond that, and to reach DBA level you really need some skill and brain. Since it's easy to leanr basics, lots of companies don't see the need of a real database expert. noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:15pm: The database structure still exists, its just no one knows it. Also we can assume its a random series of kludges and go-tos If they had somebody with a clue in SQL ( since It's MS SQL Server driven ) they could extract the tables/tablespaces and rebuild the datamodel.... But I don't think they have somebody with enough will to tackle that task ( been there done that, know how tedious it is ) noamineo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2021 at 3:19pm: The database being badly maintained and pourly thought out to begin with is part of it. Well there's one separate database server for each and every server... why do you think it takes ages to make character copies ? they might have found ways to streamline it a tiny bit for the Permadeath server transfer towards other server... but they can't replicate it to all the transfers because at a guess the Permadeath Server is based on the lamania one and don't give a fuck about guilds and stuff. Quote: I think the worry is that they've probably added in tables etc that don't need to exist, as a cludge for the fact that they don't know the structure well. No, the whole issue is DDO was built with Single Processor, Single Core, Single threaded servers in mind. When they moved to Multicore, Multithread, Virtualized environment they just reproduced the Single Core, single Thread architecture they had for a given game server on a specific box... ( including the backend stuff like the database server )... and since the game was never intended to be on that kind of architecture all hell broke loose. you can only write so many bytes per seconds on an HDD... even if it's in Raid 5 over an array of 40 disks. I/O throughput became a bottleneck. ( among other things ) Quote: I think the other problem is without a dba performing needed proper maint, inserts, deletes, and other changes could have wrecked havok on Indexes. Weekly maintenance task 20 years ago : drop indexes and recreate indexes ( 4 hours downtime ) Been there done that, got the customer educated enough so that he could do it alone... Was on call if things went awry though and had to recreate several indexes manually after the script failed at some point.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9036 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #67 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 5:36pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:44pm: No, the whole issue is DDO was built with Single Processor, Single Core, Single threaded servers in mind. When they moved to Multicore, Multithread, Virtualized environment they just reproduced the Single Core, single Thread architecture they had for a given game server on a specific box... ( including the backend stuff like the database server )... and since the game was never intended to be on that kind of architecture all hell broke loose. This makes more sense than much of our speculations. Flav wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:44pm: you can only write so many bytes per seconds on an HDD... even if it's in Raid 5 over an array of 40 disks. I/O throughput became a bottleneck. ( among other things ) I beg to disagree, but, then, I work in HPC. The systems we're building for AI(which requires insanely fast data access) use M2 system SSDs(connected via PCIe x16 bus instead of a SATA/SAS), RAID6(which is sexier than RAID5, old man) and a file system sitting on top of the hardware. The data can be striped across potentially hundreds of M2 SSDs and delivered to the server through up to 20 100gbp/s fiber optic cables. I'm pretty sure that can serve up data faster than DDO's puny little servers can read it. That system also costs more than SSG is worth. But I digress.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #68 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 8:13pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:44pm: snip. Damn thanks for the post.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9986 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #69 - Feb 6^th, 2021 at 9:16am	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 5:36pm: M2 SSDs Do you really think they can afford that kind of disk array... They are probably still on physically rotating disks with SAS interfaces ( ok, I'll even give them the 15K version, and they might have, for some specific purposes, a few SSD ( SAS ) ) No way they are on an NVMe or a M2 infrastructure. It's just too expensive for a game company as small as SSG.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #70 - Feb 6^th, 2021 at 10:06am	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 6^th, 2021 at 9:16am: Do you really think they can afford that kind of disk array... They are probably still on physically rotating disks with SAS interfaces ( ok, I'll even give them the 15K version, and they might have, for some specific purposes, a few SSD ( SAS ) ) No way they are on an NVMe or a M2 infrastructure. It's just too expensive for a game company as small as SSG. Do we know if they host their own servers or use a cloud provider? Something like digital ocean. https://www.digitalocean.com Just curious what we know and what we don't, and with your background that you've talked about you're one of the people here that might actually know what they're talking about with it.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #71 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:32am	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 6^th, 2021 at 9:16am: Do you really think they can afford that kind of disk array... They are probably still on physically rotating disks with SAS interfaces ( ok, I'll even give them the 15K version, and they might have, for some specific purposes, a few SSD ( SAS ) ) No way they are on an NVMe or a M2 infrastructure. It's just too expensive for a game company as small as SSG. Did you miss the post with their revenue numbers? Please. The narrative that the company is struggling financially is just living in the past. Which kinda works for you. I get it.


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Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 301 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #72 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:15am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:32am: Did you miss the post with their revenue numbers? Please. The narrative that the company is struggling financially is just living in the past. Which kinda works for you. I get it. The numbers say they are doing well, but I think they're too dumb to use the money right.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9986 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #73 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 10:43am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:32am: Did you miss the post with their revenue numbers? Please. The narrative that the company is struggling financially is just living in the past. Which kinda works for you. I get it. I know, but it doesn't means that they are not stringy on the hardware. After all it costs some money tp recpnfigure the office space for LARP Pac-Man. As for the Hosting, in Europe the servers were hosted in an AT&T datacenter in Amsterdam. ( both for DDO and LoTRO ), but that was long ago. Right now they are hosted in the Newark area. And the most obvious culprit there is Equinix. Since I work on and off with a MVNO that has it's network hosted by Equinix, I have a good idea of what they provide. It can be barebone hosting ( you tell them how many rack cabinets you want and they set up a separate area for you with the racks and you fill them up with whatever you want, they only provide the environment and the external connectivity ) It can be full hosting ( you tell them what you need in term of RAM/CPU/Storage and they give you admmin access to something that meets your requirement, but you have no idea what the underlying hardware is ) or a few variations in between.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Dragonborn Shroud Slacker Offline Savaging the masses... one dumbfuck at a time Posts: 1243 Joined: Jul 25^th, 2020	Re: Player's Council Application Open Reply #74 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:04pm	Print Post
	Notanarc wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:15am: The numbers say they are doing well, but I think they're too dumb to use the money right. Yup. I was surprised at how good they were as well. Who says yo can't fail upwards.

	noamineo wrote on Dec 24^th, 2021 at 12:04pm: Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy. OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26^th, 2021 at 6:03am: Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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