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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Blackrazor vs... ? (Read 6154 times)
NOTpopejubal
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Blackrazor vs... ?
Jan 30th, 2021 at 7:38pm
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I know that Blackrazor greatsword is good for Paladins. I know that a good Maul is good for Paladins. Tremor obviously and it looks like Legendary Absolute Judgement is the runner up? Morninglord's not terrible, but also not near the best?

Is there a huge difference between Blackrazor greatsword on a greatsword build and a "good, but not Tremor" Maul build?

I'm thinking of dipping my toes into the Paladin pool and want to know how much I should grind out in getting an appropriate weapon before I make the jump. Aside from the obvious weapon and Melee Power items and Family set from Sharn, is there any "must have" items that will be a pain to get that I should start looking for now?
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #1 - Jan 30th, 2021 at 9:53pm
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Wood elf tail paladin. Ezpz and you should already have tail.

  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #2 - Jan 30th, 2021 at 10:31pm
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I made a pure BF paladin with nothing but BtA gear and he does ok. Shockingly I had a harder time getting Blackrazor. Freaking drop rates.
  

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 12:34am
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Tremor is X3 multi while Blackrazor is 2x and even bludgeoning resistant undeads (zombies mostly) will eventually be able to be critted to death.

Crit threat wise, Tremor can benefit from LD tier 6 pulverizer while Blackrazor can't

Crit multiplier is instead better in FoTW (better option imho) as you can get an extra +1 on 19-20 and even consider them vorpals. You also get adrenaline charges.....

Blackrazor has interesting procs (I REALLY like the untyped damage) and immunity to mental compulsions but you have to actively kill 20 monsters to benefit from extra melee power. Depending on party size and difficulty, it is something you may have difficulty keeping up. Imho Tremor is the better option in most cases.

As for must have items, since you're going 2handed, you may want to consider getting a bloodrage chrism ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bloodrage_Chrism) and a few pieces from eminence of summer (requires feywild)
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 2:00am
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I hear it’s all about threat range which I learned when I asked why no one uses axes...
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 4:02am
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Mattyo wrote on Jan 31st, 2021 at 2:00am:
I hear it’s all about threat range which I learned when I asked why no one uses axes...


Lots of people use axes, usually its only Baz wielding Horcs in Fury ED tho.

And it can be EKs, Barbs, Fighters, etc.

That combo just works.
  

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 12:49pm
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Blackrazor with the buff up is obviously the best weapon in the game. A lot of people will figure that they can't/won't kill enough trash to keep the buff up enough and go with a Silvanis build for the higher base damage. But Blackrazor is still a great weapon even without the buff...it seems like most people don't notice or take into account the nasty debuff effect that gets added when you upgrade it:

Quote:
Soul Devouring: On hit, applies a stack of Soul Scar - Reduces AC, Fortification, and Will Saves by 1, stacks 20 times.


OTOH, non-mythic Tail of the Scorpion was slightly behind an eSoS in raw damage the last time I ran the calcs for my pally. (mythic +2 put Tail slightly ahead)

Damage mods going bonkers with the THF pass makes eSoS relevant again.
  

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #7 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 9:17pm
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NOTpopejubal wrote on Jan 30th, 2021 at 7:38pm:
I know that Blackrazor greatsword is good for Paladins. I know that a good Maul is good for Paladins. Tremor obviously and it looks like Legendary Absolute Judgement is the runner up? Morninglord's not terrible, but also not near the best?

Is there a huge difference between Blackrazor greatsword on a greatsword build and a "good, but not Tremor" Maul build?

I'm thinking of dipping my toes into the Paladin pool and want to know how much I should grind out in getting an appropriate weapon before I make the jump. Aside from the obvious weapon and Melee Power items and Family set from Sharn, is there any "must have" items that will be a pain to get that I should start looking for now?



Absolute judgement is fine. It's 2[W] behind on base dmg, and the tremor weaken undead is nice. But, it'll still be solid sans tremor.

Tail is solid.

Kinda depends on your destiny tho. maul is better for Fury. Tail probably better for Fatesinger. LD leans maul, i think.

Blackrazor is solid too, though.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #8 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 10:02pm
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Tail of Suulomades FTW
  

Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #9 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 10:21pm
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Imma math for fun:

Assume 200 total dmg mod, 200 melee power, and 25 seeker for round numbers in fatesinger and not including doublestrike:

Tail should be 14-18x3; 19-20x5 ~1290.5 per hit avg

Tremor should be 16-18x4; 19-20x6 ~ 1392 per hit avg

Absolute Judgement depends on the mob. It has a lot of proc dmg (up to 100ish avg per swing). Assuming you get that on about half of mobs, it ends up around ~1250 avg per hit

Esos would be ~1103.75 avg per hit

Black Razor (upgraded fully) would range from about 1150 per hit (no charges) up to 1330 with full charges





I have these set up in a spreadsheet now. So. if you want me to swap in your appox dmg mod and melee power, just let me know. I also didn't include anything from filigrees or from epic moments like Turn the Tide or whatever
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #10 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 10:35pm
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Head-Meat wrote on Jan 31st, 2021 at 10:21pm:
Imma math for fun:

Assume 200 total dmg mod, 200 melee power, and 25 seeker for round numbers in fatesinger and not including doublestrike:

Tail should be 14-18x3; 19-20x5 ~1290.5 per hit avg

Tremor should be 16-18x4; 19-20x6 ~ 1392 per hit avg

Absolute Judgement depends on the mob. It has a lot of proc dmg (up to 100ish avg per swing). Assuming you get that on about half of mobs, it ends up around ~1250 avg per hit

Esos would be ~1103.75 avg per hit

Black Razor (upgraded fully) would range from about 1150 per hit (no charges) up to 1330 with full charges





I have these set up in a spreadsheet now. So. if you want me to swap in your appox dmg mod and melee power, just let me know. I also didn't include anything from filigrees or from epic moments like Turn the Tide or whatever


Damage mod should be way higher, but yeah. Tremor > tail. But if you're too lazy to use a +1 like me, tail with higher damage mod > blackrazor
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #11 - Jan 31st, 2021 at 11:42pm
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So there's two tails?
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #12 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 12:04am
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Shunned wrote on Jan 31st, 2021 at 11:42pm:
So there's two tails?


And they're about a city. Wait.

Anyway he's talking about their being an epic version and an heroic version. MLs 14 @ 29 respectively.
  

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #13 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 5:59am
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Shunned wrote on Jan 31st, 2021 at 11:42pm:
So there's two tails?


Yes.

Tail of the Scorpion & Tail of Suulomades.


Although, when most people reference "Tail" they are referring to the Scorpion version.
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #14 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:04am
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Yeah. I was using Suulo in my math. It's slightly better.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #15 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:14am
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[some shit] wrote on Jan 31st, 2021 at 10:35pm:
Damage mod should be way higher, but yeah. Tremor > tail. But if you're too lazy to use a +1 like me, tail with higher damage mod > blackrazor



Keeping everything the same but moving dmg mod to 300, here's that same list:

Tail of Suulo: 1671
Tremor: 1783
Abs. Judge: 1638
eSoS:1553.75
Black razor: 1487-1704
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #16 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:15am
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Head-Meat wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:04am:
Yeah. I was using Suulo in my math. It's slightly better.

Slightly?

I think you should look again.
  

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We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #17 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:19am
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For Fun: Here's 400 dmg mod and 300 MP burst:


Tail: 3026
Tremor: 3208
Abs Jud:2995
eSoS: 3006
Black Razor: 2709-2994
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #18 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:22am
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BTW...do your Falchion #s take into account the Falchion goodness from being a Wood Elf - Elven Weapon Training I-IV?
  

Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.

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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #19 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:25am
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Technomage wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:15am:
Slightly?

I think you should look again.



Lets' check. I last looked when it was on lamma. Maybe it changed.


Scorpion: 7.5[2d4+4]+15
-Metalline
-Poison 9
-Sov Vorp
-1 Aug


Suulomades: 7.5[2d4+6]+15
-Aligned
-Electric 10 + another 10 on crit
-Sov Vorp
-2 Augs


Difference:

Suulo is +2 base damage, slightly better proc dmg, and 1 augment
Scorp is better across DR


Suulo is better. But, I don't think it's huge. When we're comparing base dps, the +2 base dmg seems the most relevant.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
--Who is luling in March 2025?
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #20 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:26am
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Technomage wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:22am:
BTW...do your Falchion #s take into account the Falchion goodness from being a Wood Elf - Elven Weapon Training I-IV?


No.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
--Who is luling in March 2025?
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #21 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:30am
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Technomage wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:22am:
BTW...do your Falchion #s take into account the Falchion goodness from being a Wood Elf - Elven Weapon Training I-IV?



According to wiki including bugs, it nets you +6 dmg. I'll redo the 200/200 with Falchions getting +6

Tail: 1313
Tremor: 1392


Another big factor that I'm WAAAAY out of the loop on is whether there is a difference on attack speed between the two.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
--Who is luling in March 2025?
*Proud FORCCer*
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #22 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:31am
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The best benefit to W-Elf, imo, is the accuracy bonuses. Having fewer misses makes a big difference in harder content.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
--Who is luling in March 2025?
*Proud FORCCer*
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #23 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 6:02pm
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Head-Meat wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:25am:
Suulo is better. But, I don't think it's huge. When we're comparing base dps, the +2 base dmg seems the most relevant.


With 10[w] (low for barb/bear builds, but whatever) that's a difference of 20 damage, or 7 str mod (almost). Pretty sizable difference - you offer me an item with 14 more str, I'm taking it and running before you can change your mind.
  
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Re: Blackrazor vs... ?
Reply #24 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 6:34pm
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[some shit] wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 6:02pm:
With 10[w] (low for barb/bear builds, but whatever) that's a difference of 20 damage, or 7 str mod (almost). Pretty sizable difference - you offer me an item with 14 more str, I'm taking it and running before you can change your mind.


The best part: Suulo is probably easier/less painful to get.
  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
Gunga wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27am:
Bitcoin. lul
--Who is luling in March 2025?
*Proud FORCCer*
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