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SSG has throw in the towel on lag (Read 2871 times)

Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 300 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	SSG has throw in the towel on lag Feb 25^th, 2021 at 4:38pm	Print Post
	. . . and hired outside help. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522139-Are-you-kidding-me This is a mini leak. It is sort of public knowledge but not out on the open. Standing Stone Games has contracted with Storm Flag Games to assist with improvements on the back end, notably lag. Storm Flag Games is a consulting firm that specializes in Massive MultiPlayer Online games and has an extensive history with multiple AAA clients. Wait for it... Storm Flag Games was founded by Fernando and Kate P. when they "exited" Turbine after the DC Infinite Crisis fiasco in 2015. Not necessarily sure that would be the consulting firm I would hire and give them public acknowledgment if I were Standing Stone Games.


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Alex DeLarge Epic Poster Offline Get ready for some of the 'ol in-out, in-out Posts: 3481 Location: Foggy Albion Joined: May 11^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #1 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 4:50pm	Print Post
	Linking to a thread that has word for word copy-paste info from the Vault Leaks, Boiii, you retarded or smth?


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kum-gulp VoD Slasher Offline I Love Tired Vault Memes! Posts: 1810 Joined: Jul 16^th, 2010	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #2 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 5:18pm	Print Post
	Related: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522077-Very-Informative-Q-and-A-with-S... Q&A written up from memory so take with a pinch of salt but... Quote: Lag issue solutions are currently divided between: making effects more efficiently applied, and too many attacks at level cap ... Bows will not fire faster at level cap due to too many attacks increasing Lag issues ... Haste Action Boost might need to be replace with something just as attractive like massive crit bonus due to Lag issues (Emphasis mine) I'm still sore about the old attack speed nerfs of yesteryear. Sounds like more bad news for the feel of combat. Not sure I value being lag-free that much. I'd guess some will be fine with slower, bigger numbers.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9003 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #3 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 5:58pm	Print Post
	Notanarc wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 4:38pm: Not necessarily sure that would be the consulting firm I would hire and give them public acknowledgment if I were Standing Stone Games. Actually that's exactly who you want to hire. The best part is they are getting paid for the privilege of saying "I told you so" . Thats probably the best thing ever. kum-gulp wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 5:18pm: Related: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522077-Very-Informative-Q-and-A-with-S... Q&A written up from memory so take with a pinch of salt but... (Emphasis mine) I'm still sore about the old attack speed nerfs of yesteryear. Sounds like more bad news for the feel of combat. Not sure I value being lag-free that much. I'd guess some will be fine with slower, bigger numbers. This is the sort of thing that drives me up a fucking tree. If "too many attacks" is causing lag you have way bigger more fundamental problems with your design ethos. That's admitting right fucking there that the game was never intended to scale past 20 and the devs have no clue what they are doing. So let's put this in perspective: DDO has lag because its possible to make "too many attacks at cap". Compare to WoW where a working-as-intended feature once made it possible for a paladin to kill a raid boss in a single hit. Why? Because their game knows how to scale.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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somenewnoob Abbot Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 751 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2016	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #4 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:36pm	Print Post
	Yeah if attack speed is breaking the game, your game be broken.

	Grab life by the pussy.
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Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 300 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #5 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:38pm	Print Post
	Alex DeLarge wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 4:50pm: Linking to a thread that has word for word copy-paste info from the Vault Leaks, Boiii, you retarded or smth? Not gonna lie. I don't read the leaks sub much.


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Notanarc Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 300 Joined: May 17^th, 2020	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #6 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:39pm	Print Post
	Its not really just attack speed. Its all the modifiers and extras on top of it that slow things down too. Spell effects, etc. too.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9003 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #7 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:52pm	Print Post
	Notanarc wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:39pm: Its not really just attack speed. Its all the modifiers and extras on top of it that slow things down too. Spell effects, etc. too. All of those are things that should never break a properly-coded game. I think its SSG's MASSIVE hard-on for RNG thats done them in. Think about all the different "small chance of" crap floating around in there. Instead of 1-5 calcs per hit its like 50. They probably have individual dice roles happening under the hood(EG: generate random numbers 1-6 15 times instead of one random 15-90) pluss having to calculate all the resistences... it stacks up every quickly and when you didn't PLAN on having 10 extra levels of scaling, it will fuck you over.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #8 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 7:02pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:52pm: All of those are things that should never break a properly-coded game. I think its SSG's MASSIVE hard-on for RNG thats done them in. Think about all the different "small chance of" crap floating around in there. Instead of 1-5 calcs per hit its like 50. They probably have individual dice roles happening under the hood(EG: generate random numbers 1-6 15 times instead of one random 15-90) pluss having to calculate all the resistences... it stacks up every quickly and when you didn't PLAN on having 10 extra levels of scaling, it will fuck you over. Auras I think fuck it up the most. I cringe at all the auras adding prr mrr removing ac etc etc. I think there is a good chance those auras can start to add some cycle time to each interaction.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9003 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #9 - Feb 25^th, 2021 at 9:25pm	Print Post
	Quote: Auras I think fuck it up the most. I cringe at all the auras adding prr mrr removing ac etc etc. I think there is a good chance those auras can start to add some cycle time to each interaction. Its possible to do all that with the right planning and hardware. Look at those stupid e-sport games where milisecond-timing matters, and people still play each other from across the world. The problem is when SSG sat down to create DDO 20 odd years ago nobody said "Ok, eventually this game is going to go up to lvl 40". I don't think they even planned past lvl 10.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #10 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 12:10pm	Print Post
	Halve everyone's speed, double everyone's damage = halve everyone's fun, double everyone's snores. It would be nice if the damage scroll kept up with attack speed though.

	Build links Endgame Gear Guide Cannith Crafting Planner link Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9984 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #11 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:17pm	Print Post
	The lag is in the Spaghetti Code... They just hired expert in Spaghetti Code... because they are the ones that actually pissed that specific Spaghetti Code.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Charon Ex Member	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #12 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:21pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 9:25pm: Its possible to do all that with the right planning and hardware. Look at those stupid e-sport games where milisecond-timing matters, and people still play each other from across the world. The problem is when SSG sat down to create DDO 20 odd years ago nobody said "Ok, eventually this game is going to go up to lvl 40". I don't think they even planned past lvl 10. Sure but gut feeling, it's not set up well and has unneeded recalculations slowing things down as it recalculates the values on all players and mobs multiple times each check rather than just once. Do you remember all the lag that used to happen when you'd get a buff to cha because it would recalculate your umd and any applications of umd to your armor etc. I don't remember the specifics of it as it was motu ish and that's been a while. But I'll put money that auras contribute significantly to whats going on. No way to prove the bet of course, but you get the idea.


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Charon Ex Member	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #13 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:22pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:17pm: The lag is in the Spaghetti Code... They just hired expert in Spaghetti Code... because they are the ones that actually pissed that specific Spaghetti Code. Want to make a bet there isn't a single comment in the F&K code?


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #14 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:34pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 25^th, 2021 at 6:52pm: when you didn't PLAN on having 10 extra levels of scaling, it will fuck you over. Homie, can you kindly take off the rose tinted glasses and shut the fuck up? I don't know what your weird boner for the pre-MoTU is; but god damn is it annoying to hear you whinging for the past every five fucking minutes. Level 20-30 does not create some magical strain on the system. If anything you were more correct on pointing out the underlying levels of sphaghetti trying to roll RNG systems instead of static rolls. If anything the epic levels should generally reduce any sort of bloat that leveling a character causes on the system. Every skill goes up once, everything is a static increase, and outside of feats there's no truly new data being added to the character.


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #15 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:36pm	Print Post
	Quote: Want to make a bet there isn't a single comment in the F&K code? Why would you bet on an absolute certainty? With how shitty Turdbine was as an employer, I imagine most of the devs refused to make comments as a form of job security and holding code ransom to ensure they don't get the axe.


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Charon Ex Member	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #16 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:53pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on Feb 26^th, 2021 at 1:36pm: Why would you bet on an absolute certainty? With how shitty Turdbine was as an employer, I imagine most of the devs refused to make comments as a form of job security and holding code ransom to ensure they don't get the axe. Heh, all true. So, think there is a enforced style guide for the code or do you think it's a mix of each developer doing whatever the fuck they wanted?


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Edrein Shroud Slacker Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 1001 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #17 - Feb 26^th, 2021 at 2:38pm	Print Post
	Quote: Heh, all true. So, think there is a enforced style guide for the code or do you think it's a mix of each developer doing whatever the fuck they wanted? With how old the company is and with how most of the employees come from non-design roles I'd imagine it's a fucking shitshow. My guess is it's just as bad as the rumors of how Cyberpunk's code base was handled. Five different people making the same asset with no one talking to each other, then they all try to cram the same code in and then bam the fubar we've got to play exists.


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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9003 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #18 - Feb 27^th, 2021 at 6:09pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on Feb 26^th, 2021 at 2:38pm: With how old the company is and with how most of the employees come from non-design roles I'd imagine it's a fucking shitshow. My guess is it's just as bad as the rumors of how Cyberpunk's code base was handled. Five different people making the same asset with no one talking to each other, then they all try to cram the same code in and then bam the fubar we've got to play exists. We know from dev posts thats happened in DDO. I think it was discovered there were ~5 different kinds of evil damage, at one point? And I'm sure the code does have comments. Its Turbine. There's gotta be at least one suicide note in there.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1212 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: SSG has throw in the towel on lag Reply #19 - Feb 27^th, 2021 at 6:23pm	Print Post
	noamineo wrote on Feb 27^th, 2021 at 6:09pm: And I'm sure the code does have comments. Its Turbine. There's gotta be at least one suicide note in there. That's funny as hell (and most likely true)


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