AOE > Crit Multi and sustained damage, in heroics.

For that reason THF is just going to be faster, and a barbarian is the fastest thing to level. Monk takes longer to pick up speed, whereas Barb gets 150 temp hp and supreme cleave right out the gate.

But for real, do whatever you want in heroics.

The fastest thing in heroics is a barbarian with elemental bloom up to about level 8, and then from level 8 a fire sorc.

Alex DeLarge wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 10:57am:


Well excuuuse me for not obsessively playing the game 24/7 365 days a year, I'm just spouting off ideas as they seem good, and fully admit that I know almost nothing about epics these days lol

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 10:26am:


Yeah that makes sense. I've always thought Carnifex was a really powerful option; SoS too for obvious reasons. Was unaware of Elemental Bloom... that DOES look really good. Swords to Plowshares + Improved Crit + Thief Acrobat/Henshin/Kensei/Occult = 15-20 x4 if I'm not mistaken.

But then again, SoS w/Improved Crit + Occult = 14-20 x4. Wouldn't SoS be better?

Personally I prefer SWF/TWF, which is why I was looking at one-handed weapons. SWF is my favorite: I like attack speed. It might be suboptimal when compared to THF, but I don't usually blaze through heroics as quickly as possible, I just play the game to have fun and try different build options.

Longswords also look pretty damn good. Nightforge Avenger in particular can get to 14-20 x4, essentially having the same crit profile as SoS, but without the necessary raid grind. I'm leaning towards using that because of how easy it is to get. And just like SoS, it's rather fungible: can be used with Elves, favored weapons (sovereign host), Paladins, Fighters, Barbs, Rangers, etc.

Ah, I see how that could be helpful. I assumed Paralyze has a shitty DC so it wouldn't be too much of a help.

Thinking about it, I'm also guessing that Quarterstaves can be helpful in that you can either Abundant Step with monks or Vault with Thief Acrobat. I could see how that is a preferable mode of transportation when rushing through heroics.

For Ghost Touch, I usually have something equipped: there's that level 3 trinket from the Gatekeepers' adventure pack, and then at level 9, there's the Cloak of Invisibility from Tempest Spine that I like to wear from 9-20. Gives 10% incorp too, which is always helpful.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. For me, SWF > TWF > THF. I like attack speed and hate lugging a huge-ass sword around; I'm not Guts from Berserk or someone like that.

TWF warhammer sounds pretty good. But I'm also thinking I can make SWF work, too.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 10:26am:



Huh. That is a nice option. I've never really paid attention to that. I might want to grab one.

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Check out bard/barb split with handaxes for crits

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No Improved Crit doubles the effectiveness of Swash so ends up being
15-20x5 vanilla
15-20x6 Litany
14-20x5 Forgotten

Theres also Foresters Brush Hook
18-20x3 Base
16-20x4 Swash
15-20x4 Imp Crit
13-20x4 Imp Crit (Swash delta)
13-20x5 FB (Delta)
12-20x5 StP

it is working as intended the whole point of Swash is to standardise all profiles to 15-20x3 (with improved crit) what makes HA so good is only range is added so fully stacks with FB. Rapier and Kukri are also pretty good with Enhancements that add range

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For best weapons crit profile is only part of the equation you also need to consider +W and damage dice what makes Sky Pirates an exceptional weapon is its 1d6 compared to 1d4 of most daggers which makes it relevant for the whole of heroics.

If only they would make a battlerager dwarf iconic. Dual wielding warhammers with some racial tree support would be delish.

I built around Forester's Brush Hook once for the fun crits. Found it pretty boring. Depends how you like to play but I found wielding the one weapon most of the time really monotonous. It's fun to watch a while but soon wears thin. I do stuff like that on Lam these days.

blegh wrote on Jun 24^th, 2022 at 10:44am:


Yep, I really am not a fan of the way melee is balanced in DDO. Especially in newer packs, where you're just thrown huge waves of enemies. Still love SWF though. And I don't care if it's suboptimal, at least it's viable in heroics, which is all I play.

In Heroics, SWF does still have good options for AoE damage. Fighters can use their extra feats for Cleave + Great Cleave. Paladins have free cleaves from KoTC. Barbarians get Supreme Cleave on a fantastic 3 sec cooldown. EK has up to 2 cleaves. Swashbuckler En Point has strikethrough. Not sure how well they hold up in epics, but the funny thing is for heroics, even if I'm using SWF, I can usually clear out mobs faster than my THF party members. And if I'm wielding a ToEE item, it's even faster.

I'm pretty sure Swashbuckler doesn't apply to Longsword. But the profile could still be quite hefty w/Knight's Training

19-20 x2 base
19-20 x3 knight's training
17-20 x3 improved critical
15-20 x3 nightforge avenger
15-20 x5 frenzied berserker or
13-20 x4 ravager + kensei mix

It's weird because I crafted my GS scimitars back when they were objectively better than Longswords (18-20 x2), but with the advent of Knight's Training, I may have to work on crafting more Longswords.

I enjoy having these different weapons to try out for different racial lives. And for all my distrust of Turbine's decisions, the core game is still just as good as it was when I started playing this game, 12 years ago.

Since I know almost nothing about the current epic game, I would mainly engineer that build for heroics, taking advantage of relatively powerful weaponry at level, and crafting a level split to give you powerful enhancements as early as possible

Longsword can't be swashbuckled, so I would eschew any Barb levels. Instead, I would go 2 rogue because Evasion is incredibly useful at all levels in heroics: with enough dex (+3 rogue PLs) you can effectively avoid 95% of spell damage, rush through traps, and/or disable them if you desire for +30% extra exp. Plus you gain access to UMD, which in turn gives you access to Tenser's, Fire Shield, Res, Heal, and other nifty goodies. Rogue levels also make you very desirable in groups, since everyone loves a good trap monkey.

Split would be something like:

1 rogue: take SWF. I always take 1 rogue for early access to thieving skills
2 barbarian. Fast movement + martial proficiencies help out for Korthos/Borderlands/Harbor etc
3 barbarian: take Power Attack. This is an important benchmark because now we have access to Blood Tribute, which makes you viable for reaper mode
4 fighter: take Cleave. SWF is garbage at AoE, so this helps cover that weakness
5 rogue for evasion
6 barbarian: take Great Cleave
7 fighter: take ISWF. This is the earliest we can possibly get it, given that we have 2 rogue levels
8 fighter
9 fighter: take Improved Critical and Knight's Training. At this point, your Nightforge Avenger Blade will be 15-20 x3
10 barbarian (uncanny dodge, yay)
11 fighter
12 barbarian: take GSWF. We now have 5 barb levels, which unlocks T5 ravager enhancements. Nightforge Avenger is now 13-20 x3
13 fighter: take Offhand Versatility for +.25 stat scaling. We now have 6 fighter levels, which unlocks Kensei Core 3, so Nightforge Avenger is now 13-20 x4. At this point, we should ALMOST have enough AP for everything: 8 AP in Frenzied Berserker for Blood Tribute, 34 AP in Ravager for self-heal and +2 crit range, 11 AP in Kensei for +1 crit multiplier
14-20 is a tossup. Take extra Barb levels if you want Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 17; take extra fighter levels if you want access to those Weapon Focus feats

By the time you are level 13, you'd basically have everything you need. From there, some other feats to consider are Stunning Blow, Completionist, and Toughness. I am personally not a huge fan of Stunning blow on SWF because of no strikethrough, and because SWF tends to kill shit so quickly anyway. But it can certainly help with orange mobs/monster champions.