Head-Meat wrote on Jul 13
th, 2022 at 9:23am:
Bruh.
This game has basically three modes:
1. Casuals (anything works so the discussion is irrelevant)
2. TR train. This is really what you're talking about. The giveaway is mentioning "heals" at all. You're more/less right here I suppose in terms of your ranking.
3. "End game"= lvl 32 mid-high reaper and raiding.
Self heals are pretty lol when it comes to #3. So, you have a good mix of builds. Melee isn't hot here atm. Lots of ranged and casters when you're running reapers. BUT, you'll see the odd tank. As far as melee DPS, I mostly see your "S", "A", and "D", tiers or some combination of those. I don't see Bs and Cs much. Still some. But it's less common.
Well, I admitted in my original post that post-20 stuff bores me and that things COULD change after that. How well would you say #3 is balanced? What are the best melee classes at that point? If class balance eventually does get better, I guess that's a good sign. But either way, I'm not a fan of how overcentralizing certain builds are for the majority of the leveling process - which is a game in itself.
I'm open to the idea of being wrong, especially when it comes to the epic/legendary game, and am interested in hearing if/how things change then.
eighnuss wrote on Jul 13
th, 2022 at 9:51am:
people play bears? when did that occur
wtf is a warsoul, a melee fvs like the WF meme used to try to be
melee artificers?
monks get nerfed or something?
eldritch knights isnt that a meme wizard tree
are those pure builds, like BRO MY LEGENDARY MELEE WIZARD KNIGHT BUILD FOR R11 SOLOS VON6
did they buff these things or some other system, nerf other popular build choices in the last several years? how did these meme trees and historically unplayed builds become so much more 'powerful' than a fucking pure fighter lol. what game changes allow this tier ranking? reading that chart is giving me mandella effect vibes
You know, I don't think I ever mentioned this, but I love your username, lmao.
Anyway, melee FVS/Clr is actually damn solid because of the mix of strong sustainability, decent offense, team support, and the ability to dip into offensive spellcasting as needed. Monks are idk; admittedly I don't know a whole lot about them, but unarmed really doesn't seem that good right now. EKs are amazing right now because of offense which is essentially unparalleled: strong AoE nukes like traditional spellcasters, plus the ridiculous T5 cleave with +3 crit multiplier and gobs of elemental damage.
Melee Artificer is a similar story to melee FVS/Clr. It can actually work well, given strong offense and 10% move speed from Battle Engineer, plus strong sustainability from Renegade Mastermaker. You get the typical arti stuff like Blade Barrier, Tactical Detonation, Curative Admixtures, Deadly Weapons, and all that jazz. Plus cure serious admixture SLA @ 6, oodles of HP, the option for heal/repair spells as needed, and the Reconstruct SLA at T4. Overall I don't think Melee Artificers are the best at any one thing, but they're generalists who check all the boxes needed to be a viable option: good damage, good heals/self-sustain, good party support, and even offensive spellcasting. Also, you can feasibly do int builds via Harper, so that everything runs off of your int: trapping, stun from RMM, spell DCs, damage/hit rolls.
More or less yes, I was thinking "how good is this class pure," or at least "how good of an idea is it to PRIMARILY play this class/tree?" And at that, yeah, fighters are awful and have been for a few years now. Zero sustainability and their offense is worse than what Pal/Animals/EKs have. No mobility enhancements outside of Vanguard (which Pal also gets), inferior tank tree to Paladin, no team support aside from CCs which aren't even that great, etc. Fighter is godawful right now when compared to the fold.
Justanotherlurker wrote on Jul 13
th, 2022 at 10:36am:
The main thing that matters in low reaper heroics are run speed and AoE so stick monks are better than handwrap monks currently.
Fair enough. I should've made that distinction earlier but yea, staves do seem better than unarmed because of how much the meta favors THF.