Was pondering the applications of Flamesalt weapons earlier when running Saltmarsh, since I never use those weapons and was wondering “are these actually good?” I came to a realization that no, they suck. And so do Ferrocrystal weapons. I eventually did the quick maths to prove it. For this case study, I decided to look at the ML 2 Nicked Weapons from Sharn, and ML 4 Cannith Crafted Weapons to compare.

ML 2 Nicked Weapons:
+2 enhancement
+2d6 elemental
+3 deadly

= +2 to hit, +7~17 damage

ML 4 Cannith Crafted Weapons:
+2 enhancement
+2d6 elemental (red aug)
+2d6 light damage prefix
+2d6 bludgeon or piercing or slashing suffix

= +2 to hit, +8~38 damage

ML 5 Ferrocrystal Weapons:
+2 enhancement
+2d6 elemental (red aug)
Destruction
+2d8 damage on crits (avg = 9 damage per crit; crits 15% of the time; 9 * 0.15 = 1.35 damage per hit on average)
+2d10 damage vs fey

= +2 to hit, +5.35~15.35 damage, Destruction
vs fey = +2 to hit, +7.35~35.35 damage, Destruction

Even against Fey, Ferrocrystal weapons are WORSE than ML 4 Cannith Crafted Weapons (7.35~35.35 vs. 8~38 damage per hit). Against non-fey, they are inferior to even NICKED weapons (5.35~15.35 vs. 7~17 damage per hit). WTF? The only thing you are really getting is Destruction, but Destruction is pointless at Level 5 because you’re supposed to be killing things quickly. Ferrocrystal weapons suck donkey balls. It’s hard to believe how bad they are. Just like the rest of Feywild. Fuck Feywild.

ML 5 Flamesalt Weapons:
+1 enhancement (why…?)
+2d6 cold
+Weakening
+2d6 elemental (red aug)
+2d10 bane vs monstrous humanoids

= +1 to hit, +5~25 damage, +1 str damage per hit
vs monstrous humanoids = +1 to hit, +7~45 damage, +1 str damage per hit

Flamesalt weaponry on the other hand… it’s just mediocre. The most glaring problem I have with them is the +1 enhancement bonus. Seriously, why? It’s not a huge issue, but it’s just bizarre. Aside from that, you’re getting 5~25 damage per hit against normal targets, which is strictly inferior to Cannith Crafted ML 4s (5~25 vs 8~38). Against Monstrous Humanoids, Flamesalt has a +7 higher damage ceiling than ML 4 Cannith Crafted weapons, but a -1 damage floor and -1 to hit (7~45 vs 8~38. You also apply -1 str damage per hit, which is realistically not going to be doing much.

Given this reality, are Flamesalts really worth the inventory slot? I don’t really think so. They’re better than nothing, sure, but they seem resoundingly mediocre. At best, they’re situationally better than ML 4 Cannith Crafted weapons, and even so, it’s ever-so-marginally.

Also, consider the competition, even outside of Cannith Crafted weaponry. Shortswords have Tiefling’s Assassin Blade at 4 and Blade of the Clouds at 6. Daggers have Flotsam at 4. Scimitars have Kronzek’s Cruelty at 4. Quarterstaves have the Cheiftain’s Spear at 4. Etc. All of the above have ToEE weapons at 7. Given all these options, I really see no niche for Flamesalt weapons.

In summary: Ravenloft 10 weapons are very good at their level. Sharn 15 weapons are very good for their level. On the other hand, Saltmarsh weapons are mediocre for their level. Feywild weapons are downright useless; against most targets, they’re inferior to ML 2 nicked weapons (lol) and against Fey, they’re inferior to ML 4 Cannith Crafted weapons.

What were they thinking when designing these weapons??? Stuff like this really blows my mind as to how Turbine still has its sycophantic apologists.

noamineo wrote on Jul 19^th, 2022 at 5:53pm:


unless you can demonstrate that ferrocrystal and flamesalt are specifically intended to be starter items then i dont think the latter point applies. when proverbial you create a toon and it comes with free shit for 0 effort it should be the lowest benefit in game so u dont invalidate any non free content that takes effort. i am assuming these items require some form of effort, collectible, explorer farming, something beyond pressing CREATE CHARACTER. so it would make sense for it to have level appropriate stats.

simultaneously
OMG POWER CREEP
OMG ITS NOT BETTER ITS WORSE
the more items they make that are shit, or equal to existing items, the less you have to move out of your TR bank each life. it is a good thing that the new flavors of the month dont invalidate systems like cannith crafting. but i must agree that level 4 and 5 named items should not come out of the box performing worse than lvl 2 named items.

Ferrocrystal weapons are for beating on oozes and rust monsters.

Quote:


That's explained by simply retardation. You know I'm all for those work-assistance programs but the group home really shouldn't be sending out game designers.

Yeah, well, I guess retardartion is a good explanation for a lot of the shit that Turbines done over the past 10 years.

In other news, it looks like they're taking down Skeletons in the Closet, some 10 hours after releasing it. lol

noamineo wrote on Jul 20^th, 2022 at 2:50pm:


Come on, do you really think they would let those kids work around Fat Jerry?

Notanarc wrote on Jul 21^st, 2022 at 6:26am:


They really don't.

It's been mentioned in dev postings that they do have some kind of quality assurance testing, steel let slip a few times that certain features were cut because they couldn't make it work reliably enough(and given how reliable the stuff that DID pass qa is...woof). The only real play-testing we get is a few hours of Lamania 2 weeks before the release goes live, during which any and all feedback will be ignored.

Quote:



I'll take "Things we all  knew would happen" for $500 Alex"

beep beep beep

What is "Business as usual for Turdbine"

That is correct for 500!

Rubbinns wrote on Jul 21^st, 2022 at 7:11pm:




I'm not even mad. That's just impressive.

Okay, I took some time to craft some twink weapons and here's what I'm talking about. Note how previously, I completely disregarded the possibility for double augmented lootgen weapons. With these, Flamesalts are completely irrelevant and utterly outclassed:



Falchion is +2, has 8d6 extra damage, for 10~50 extra damage per hit

Compare this to Flamesalt which is +1 with 7~45 extra damage per hit, even against monstrous humanoids

This means Falchions are universally better. Only thing Flamesalt has is the -1 str per hit, which is useless. Also note how I could've eschewed 2d6 in Bludgeon Damage and gone for Keen instead.

For the Greatsword, it's +2 with 6d6 extra damage, for 8~38 extra damage per hit

Compare this to Ferrocrystal which are +2 to hit, +5.35~15.35 damage, and have Destruction. It's really no comparison.

somenewnoob wrote on Jul 21^st, 2022 at 3:26pm:

Who?

somenewnoob wrote on Jul 21^st, 2022 at 3:26pm:



Standing Stone Games wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:



Slick Stick wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 2:51pm:


You logged on the wrong sock account again.