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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #25 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:33pm
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noamineo wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:25pm:
Iconic starts at lvl1 of whatever class it is. That's how its always worked.


I thought the way archetypes worked was that you pick a class, e.g. paladin and then you can choose the archetype or the base class. So you could pick bladeforged and then choose whether to play as a base paladin or use an archetype for the 1st level.

Just seems that iconics are locked to the base class unfortunately, no doubt its their plan to sell more hearts.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #26 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:35pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:05pm:
Edit : So as i understand it, when you TR with an archetype, you get that archetype past life feat instead of the regular class past life feat, you dont get both the archetype past life + class past life?


I feel like SSG's wording makes this way more convoluted than it should be.

If your an archetype you get the archetype pastlife. But rather than increasing heroic completionist grind; the achetype pastlives count for their 'base' class.

IE: I reincarnate as a Dark Apostate. I get the Dark Apostate past life and if I didn't have any cleric pastlives, I am now flagged internally as having done a cleric pastlife.

You get credit; you just get a different past life.

Horizontal progression not linear. It's an alternate path to the same goal in the end.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #27 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:38pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:33pm:
I thought the way archetypes worked was that you pick a class, e.g. paladin and then you can choose the archetype or the base class. So you could pick bladeforged and then choose whether to play as a base paladin or use an archetype for the 1st level.

Just seems that iconics are locked to the base class unfortunately, no doubt its their plan to sell more hearts.


This is because on the backend I imagine Iconics and Archetypes use the same base code structure. The only difference being that an archetype is an opt in class and an iconic is a hard coded class data masquerading as a racial enhancement.

This is probably the reason the iconics are hardlocked to 1 level of their base class, even if we can later TR out of it. It's just also convenient for SSG/Turdbine that this increases revenue for them.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #28 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:55pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:33pm:
I thought the way archetypes worked was that you pick a class, e.g. paladin and then you can choose the archetype or the base class. So you could pick bladeforged and then choose whether to play as a base paladin or use an archetype for the 1st level.

Just seems that iconics are locked to the base class unfortunately, no doubt its their plan to sell more hearts.


On a non-iconic character you pick your first level. On an iconic your first level is picked for you when you pick the iconic.

In any case it's kind of a moot point. No one would ever want to play a Morninglord Dark Apostate and there is no Bard Iconic. The only one where its even relevant is Bladeforged; and do we really think Sacred Fist is good enough that SSG is going to make a fortune of people who want to play BF Fisters?
  

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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #29 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:19pm
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SSG seems to think sacred fist is good though.

Anyway, im just dissapointed that i cant do my bladeforged + sacred fist lives at the same time, at least not without using a heart.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #30 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:55pm
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Edrein wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:38pm:
This is because on the backend I imagine Iconics and Archetypes use the same base code structure. The only difference being that an archetype is an opt in class and an iconic is a hard coded class data masquerading as a racial enhancement.

This is probably the reason the iconics are hardlocked to 1 level of their base class, even if we can later TR out of it. It's just also convenient for SSG/Turdbine that this increases revenue for them.


I can think of one way to do it...you know the way warlock pacts work? You pick a feat at level 1 to determine your pact. So they could make archetypes a "feat", you have to select either the base class or the archetype via a feat at level 1. If they dont want people to switch to a different archetype, then they could just make it not switchable at Fred.

Anyway, i had a closer look at dark apostate and stormsinger.

Stormsinger actually seems decent, the main problem with a bard at higher levels is that they lack good damage spells (greater shout only does 1d6+3), giving them access to lightning spells like ball lightning, chain lightning and thunderstroke helps a lot in that regard.

The lightning strike only being triggered via sonic and cold spells makes no sense. So if im blasting a boss with my higher damaging lightning spells, my lightning strike is not going to trigger, forcing me to use my weaker spells instead? Meh.

No way to remove cold or electric immunity is classic SSG stupidity. T5 is underwhelming....t5 spellsinger and t4 stormsinger might be a good choice though.

Dark apostate is meh. Shadow form is useless in end game reaper. Evil damage on hit with favored weapons is meh. Using bless, bane and prayer to deal damage is an interesting option...except that they dont deal enough damage and the cores dont give you +caster level to compensate.

The t5 is useless, and theres no way to remove negative energy immunity. Mighty turning without improved turning is pointless.

And these lame +5 spellpower feats are stupid. At least give +necromancy DC or something that matters.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #31 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:05am
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:55pm:
I can think of one way to do it...you know the way warlock pacts work? You pick a feat at level 1 to determine your pact. So they could make archetypes a "feat", you have to select either the base class or the archetype via a feat at level 1. If they dont want people to switch to a different archetype, then they could just make it not switchable at Fred.

Anyway, i had a closer look at dark apostate and stormsinger.

Stormsinger actually seems decent, the main problem with a bard at higher levels is that they lack good damage spells (greater shout only does 1d6+3), giving them access to lightning spells like ball lightning, chain lightning and thunderstroke helps a lot in that regard.

The lightning strike only being triggered via sonic and cold spells makes no sense. So if im blasting a boss with my higher damaging lightning spells, my lightning strike is not going to trigger, forcing me to use my weaker spells instead? Meh.

No way to remove cold or electric immunity is classic SSG stupidity. T5 is underwhelming....t5 spellsinger and t4 stormsinger might be a good choice though.

Dark apostate is meh. Shadow form is useless in end game reaper. Evil damage on hit with favored weapons is meh. Using bless, bane and prayer to deal damage is an interesting option...except that they dont deal enough damage and the cores dont give you +caster level to compensate.

The t5 is useless, and theres no way to remove negative energy immunity. Mighty turning without improved turning is pointless.

And these lame +5 spellpower feats are stupid. At least give +necromancy DC or something that matters.


I said on forums that the best bard for stormsinger is going to be WC t5/core5 with ss t4 and spellsinger lightning strike on melee strikes via inspire the storm. Probably color spray and cha hit/dmg in Feydark.  And multiclass is an option since not taking any core 6. I was thinking 2 barb for blood tribute. And you get magical training out of the gate with spellsinger so can take master touch and cha hit/dmg right away. It would be a great raiding bard for sure.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:05am by contessor »  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #32 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:44am
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contessor wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:05am:
I said on forums that the best bard for stormsinger is going to be WC t5/core5 with ss t4 and spellsinger lightning strike on melee strikes via inspire the storm. Probably color spray and cha hit/dmg in Feydark.  And multiclass is an option since not taking any core 6. I was thinking 2 barb for blood tribute. And you get magical training out of the gate with spellsinger so can take master touch and cha hit/dmg right away. It would be a great raiding bard for sure.


Wrongo. You can't self proc the storm strikes with your own melee/ranged attacks only spells. Otherwise I'd have been happy to play a stormsinger despite the loss of temp HP from Inspire Greatness.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #33 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:51am
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noamineo wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 10:55pm:
there is no Bard Iconic.

Sometimes even I wonder if you're retarded.

What do you think the Tiefling Scoundrel is?
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #34 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:53am
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:55pm:
I can think of one way to do it...you know the way warlock pacts work? You pick a feat at level 1 to determine your pact. So they could make archetypes a "feat", you have to select either the base class or the archetype via a feat at level 1. If they dont want people to switch to a different archetype, then they could just make it not switchable at Fred.


An elegant solution that anyone with half a braincell and not under the crunch to make their brainchild actually a part of a no-new-content release might have thought of.

As it stands. I'm sure Lynabel probably had the smartest idea in the room to make them work off the skeleton of the Iconic's code.

I shudder at the thought of what the alternatives may have been.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #35 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 8:37am
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Edrein wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:51am:
Sometimes even I wonder if you're retarded.

Wonder? Look at the evidence man.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #36 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:12am
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Edrein wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 4:44am:
Wrongo. You can't self proc the storm strikes with your own melee/ranged attacks only spells. Otherwise I'd have been happy to play a stormsinger despite the loss of temp HP from Inspire Greatness.


Hmm then it was changed from Lamania because you could add the buff to yourself.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #37 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:16am
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contessor wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:12am:
Hmm then it was changed from Lamania because you could add the buff to yourself.


It wasn't working on Preview 2 and on Preview 3 for me at least. Most definitely didn't work with preview 3 for sure which is why I said it's not working.

I was super disappointed in that. Like I said; I could live with dropping the 200-ish temp HP I could hover around.

Given my live build has been an Lightning/Sonic/Cold EK for the past few months, I had time to min-max those SP combos and make Reign do perdy numbers. So having a build that used everything I learned from that EK and then letting it proc EXTA LIGHTNING off myself and my party members? It sounded like a wet dream.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #38 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:21am
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Edrein wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:16am:
It wasn't working on Preview 2 and on Preview 3 for me at least. Most definitely didn't work with preview 3 for sure which is why I said it's not working.

I was super disappointed in that. Like I said; I could live with dropping the 200-ish temp HP I could hover around.

Given my live build has been an Lightning/Sonic/Cold EK for the past few months, I had time to min-max those SP combos and make Reign do perdy numbers. So having a build that used everything I learned from that EK and then letting it proc EXTA LIGHTNING off myself and my party members? It sounded like a wet dream.


Well I’m on that path on HCL just as a troll character and because you can’t TR right now. I’ll see if I can duplicate but I in fact did it on lamania at least to get the buff. Can’t remember if tested if it proc’ed or not. I just remember self targeting with the generic bard song.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #39 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 5:13am
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I was playing around in DDO builder trying to make a sacred fist build...

I came up with PDK sacred fist 12/fighter 6/cleric 2. This lets you use silvanus mauls as a favored weapon, off the top of my head, i think that ends up as a 16-20/x4 crit profile.

Stat wise, i went with :

Str : 14
Dex : 12
Con : 16
Int : 8
Wis : 8
Cha : 18

The 14 str is necessary to start at level 15 with Greater THF.

Feats :

Power attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Great Cleave, Child of Faith, THF, Improved THF, Greater THF, Improved Critical, Blessing of Silvanus, Quicken Spell (at level 18 for rejuv cocoon in epics). Cleric domain is War Domain for +1 to hit/damage.

I went with power attack instead of precision because this is just meant to go from 15-30 for the past life feat and you should be hitting everything except bosses on a 2+ anyway.

Another option is to ignore the favored weapon mechanic and just use SOS/Epic SOS which ends up with a 14-20/x4 crit profile if im not wrong.

Feat wise, I would take the following instead :

Power attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, THF, Improved THF, Greater THF, Improved Critical, Dodge, Mobility , Whirlwind attack, Quicken Spell, Blessing of Silvanus (when you need to bypass DR/bludgeoning).

I would take the exalted cleave in sacred fist as well. I think this does more DPS but is more reliant on crits.

One thing i dont like about using slashing weapons is that there are WAY more skeletons than zombies in the game and switching to a bludgeoning weapon loses a lot of DPS...
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2022 at 5:16am by ManyCookies »  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #40 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:02am
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Sarlona will undergo a restart at 11:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) tonight on Friday, September 2nd to promote the health of the game environment. Thank you! #DDO

Tf does this mean?
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #41 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:39am
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Sasha wrote on Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:02am:
Sarlona will undergo a restart at 11:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) tonight on Friday, September 2nd to promote the health of the game environment. Thank you! #DDO

Tf does this mean?


The hamsters need a break.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #42 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 9:37am
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Sasha wrote on Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:02am:
Sarlona will undergo a restart at 11:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) tonight on Friday, September 2nd to promote the health of the game environment. Thank you! #DDO

Tf does this mean?


Based on the raid discord I'm in; server was shitting the bed last night.

I'd say the chinese were sploitin' but it was too early in the night for them.
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #43 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 1:23pm
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The stormsinger melee proc on OTHERS is SUPER meh.

I did a small test today. I went and smacked some orange names in melee on my caster druid. I went into wolf form and just chipped away with pathetic damage. The point is I did a lot of hits, and I got maybe 3 procs. This was on Epic Elite because I wanted to see the damage numbers before reaper. My procs were ~2200. That's fine as an add-on. Keep in mind this is lvl 30+ content I was in. (It was the first room of that often-run quest in the 12 cave. Can't remember the name).

ANYWAY, the proc rate was bad. I'm guessing at or below 2%.

My elec spell power was ~700 before metas.



You're basically adding LIT2 proc to everyone's weapon as a bard. Not the worst thing, but it's far from boss at this point. Also, I have a feeling it scales off the individual's elec spell power. I actually have gear for it on that caster. Actual melees will be pathetic if that's how it scales.
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2022 at 1:26pm by Head-Meat »  


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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #44 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 6:27pm
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:19pm:
SSG seems to think sacred fist is good though.

Anyway, im just dissapointed that i cant do my bladeforged + sacred fist lives at the same time, at least not without using a heart.


I would wager that you can't do bladeforged + sacred fist at the same time even with a heart.
  

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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #45 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 7:42pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 6:27pm:
I would wager that you can't do bladeforged + sacred fist at the same time even with a heart.


I believe if you rolled a lvl1 bf on HCL, drowned it in the harbor, then used a +1 heart, you could do it. Alternatively if you did lvl 1 on paladin, then lvls 2-14 on something else, THEN +1 hearted, then +20 hearted.... I think the math here says "fuck archetypes" but I'd appreciate if someone would check it for me.
  

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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #46 - Sep 6th, 2022 at 11:05am
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on live just now without a heart. See http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1662333655
  

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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #47 - Sep 6th, 2022 at 11:14am
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Snu Snu wrote on Sep 6th, 2022 at 11:05am:




I hope they leave that alone. It's a good thing.

Thanks!


EDIT: Looks like this may have been before the "restart" today. Hopefully they don't stealth "fix" it.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2022 at 11:16am by Head-Meat »  


Strake wrote on Mar 31st, 2020 at 1:51pm:
Like every group, there are schlubs and there are stars, and a lot in between. Pick your cause and I can say the same thing about the associated group.
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #48 - Sep 6th, 2022 at 9:05pm
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noamineo wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 7:42pm:
bf on HCL, drowned



robots can drown?   Wink
  
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Re: u56 Release Notes
Reply #49 - Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:29pm
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This update has been so good they're now having to warn people not to use the reincarnation cache. Can you TR yet? Incredible.
  
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