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iGouger
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Thoughts on the new ToEE
Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:25am
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I just ran heroic ToEE, R1. Managed to get a group of 4 players total. It went very well; I wish I could get good players more often! DDO is so much more fun that way, and I miss the old days when everyone was easy to hang out with.

We took around 90 minutes to clear the whole thing, but we wasted some time on a few things, like waiting for some noob who just left us without saying a word (go figure...), or trying to find our way around the water node. If we were optimizing things, I could see the run easily going down to 70 minutes total.

Payout was almost an entire level: I started at level 10 with 0 ranks, and ended just 1k exp from level 11. So 190k exp total, in 90 minutes. Pretty good overall.

Plus, total favor payout was 105 for Gatekeepers. Could be potentially useful for those wanting to unlock Horizon Walker.

As for the negatives, I still think the hallways are too large. However, in the water node, there are these little undercurrents which greatly speed things up. This is appreciated, but SSG should've done more. Overall though, a step in the right direction.

Additionally: it takes SUBSTANTIALLY longer to do a full run of TOEE. Previously, you could run P1 in 15 mins + P2 in 15-20 minutes, depending on your luck with the node. New ToEE, I see it being 60 minutes at MINIMUM. Granted, this is somewhat offset by the chain giving a LOT more exp.

I also am still not happy over how they deleted the old crafting system. The heroic weapons were VERY good for their level, and even if they weren't, I love the idea of AoE procs on melee weapons. We need more such weapons. I see no reason why SSG couldn't just scrap the old crafting system, and give us something akin to GS or Alchemicals.

New loot looks "meh." I will continue using my Failwild gear from 5-10, and my Ravenloft + slavers + CC gear from 10-15. Nothing changes there.

All in all, this was a pleasant surprise that came from the shitstorm that was U56. Call me crazy, but I can see myself running this every life now. New ToEE is definitely far from perfect, but it's also far better than what I've come to expect from SSG.

I guess that's one of the perks to having the bar so low: anything remotely good will exceed expectations. Anyone else running ToEE? Any thoughts? How is it on Legendary?
  
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Alex DeLarge
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #1 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:28am
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I didnt know that they could take smth as basic as ToEE and make it absolutely worse in every fucking department bar a couple of named items (mainly goggles), first time RXP at cap, and ability to Red door (its main saving grace).

1) Flagging everything to get to the end boss. Especially the elemental quests - YUCK, DISGUSTING.

2) Mob density, completely unchanged or made even worse. Literally pulling red alerts by turning the wrong corner. Holy lazy devballs.

3) They really fucked with the dynamic of the upper part 1 requiring 2 runes and spawning you in noob entrance (a.k.a. left side). If you were the type to start from lower west side before - you are an idiot.

4) Lower part 1 is basically the same except you no longer have access to the charm club. Endbosses had no HP lmao.

5) Elemental nodes. Hahahahahhah! what in the fuck is going on here?
Did they change quest layouts only so slightly to the point of me questioning my sanity with Mandella effect and/or partial amnesia?
Also, 4 beacons instead of 1 node before. Literally retarded worst offender here. Whoever made this change should just kill themselves. Just jump from an overpass in a busy highway.

6) Are the Dragons optional and Giants end bosses in these? Or are they random? Water node had Giant optional and Dragon boss endfight. The rest nodes had the opposite. Most of these bosses either have broken low CR or weirdly low HP, they got bursted too easily. Literally all of them.

7) Zuggtmoy fight was hella easy and uneventful, even on R10.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:31am by Alex DeLarge »  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #2 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 9:45am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:28am:
I didnt know that they could take smth as basic as ToEE and make it absolutely worse in every fucking department


It was underperforming...
since the old TOEE was long and could be a pita if you didn't know all the ins and outs it was not visited.
( and well there's better XP/min quests around that level )

So they tried, in their twisted ways to make it more appealing to people.
  
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iGouger
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 11:25am
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Flav wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 9:45am:
the old TOEE was long and could be a pita if you didn't know all the ins and outs it was not visited.
( and well there's better XP/min quests around that level )


Level 7 has a lot of good ones that I hit up every life: Sentinels for Saga, Gwylan, Dhakaan, Pit. I enjoy all those quests. Old ToEE P1 was good exp too however; I could typically manage at least 2k xp/min, which is about on par with solo Gwylan or solo Dhakaan.

New ToEE is roughly the same xp/min, if not better. 190k exp/90 minutes is just a little bit over 2k xp/min. And like i mentioned earlier, it can optimized further, so I could see it being 190k exp/70 or 75 mins

Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:28am:
2) Mob density, completely unchanged or made even worse. Literally pulling red alerts by turning the wrong corner. Holy lazy devballs.

3) They really fucked with the dynamic of the upper part 1 requiring 2 runes and spawning you in noob entrance (a.k.a. left side). If you were the type to start from lower west side before - you are an idiot.


Yeah mob density is only slightly improved at best. Weird how they made such a big show of "oh look we're decreasing mob density" when they didn't really.

I can understand the point of the new Part 1-1 though. It forces you to actually explore more of the dungeon. If you know your way, you can probably do it within 10 minutes. This then unlocks Part 1-2, which is unchanged and gives fantastic xp/min (35k in 7 minutes is what we got)

Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:28am:
Also, 4 beacons instead of 1 node before. Literally retarded worst offender here. Whoever made this change should just kill themselves. Just jump from an overpass in a busy highway.


The good thing is that, as far as I can tell, the beacons are in the same place every time now. Makes it easier to complete if you already know the quests. Yeah, it's a pain the first time, but on subsequent playthroughs, you can optimize it. Especially if you're lucky to get a party.

Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 3:28am:
6) Are the Dragons optional and Giants end bosses in these? Or are they random? Water node had Giant optional and Dragon boss endfight. The rest nodes had the opposite. Most of these bosses either have broken low CR or weirdly low HP, they got bursted too easily. Literally all of them.

7) Zuggtmoy fight was hella easy and uneventful, even on R10.


The giants/dragons seem to be the "powerful optionals" that SSG was talking about. They drop the old ML 7 weapons. They're all really easy as you mentioned.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:03pm
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We took around 90 minutes to clear the whole thing, but we wasted some time on a few things, like waiting for some noob who just left us without saying a word (go figure...), or trying to find our way around the water node. If we were optimizing things, I could see the run easily going down to 70 minutes total.


Did they nerf the ddoor fights?

I know in at least air and water portions of prt1 you could drop a ddoor, grab the key, and door out without having to fight a big ugly named. Wondering if that's been "fixed" that like they fixed the jump in the god damn spider quest.
  
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iGouger
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 2:40pm
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I don't know if you still can, but either way, I'm not sure if you'd want to.

Goristro goes down in seconds. I'm playing a SWF Pally life and on R1, can crit the thing for >500 damage (1k if doublestriking). Combine that with my party members who knew what they were doing - sorc, arti, druid - and it took us all of 3 seconds to kill the thing.

Water takes a little longer, but cube only has 2.5k hp. We're done with that room in 1 minute at most, and most of that time was spent just walking around due to the largeness of the room

Again, I really need to underscore how damn good the exp in Part 1-2 is now. 35k in 7 minutes. And we could've gone even faster, had we split up. That's almost Shadow Crypt tier right there. Sure, Part 1-1 is slower, but it's still very good exp/min.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #6 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 7:24pm
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arew these xp per min nmumbers with full buffs and a xp pot running?  Cause im wondering how much i suck
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #7 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 7:48pm
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I don't know if you still can, but either way, I'm not sure if you'd want to.

Goristro goes down in seconds. I'm playing a SWF Pally life and on R1, can crit the thing for >500 damage (1k if doublestriking). Combine that with my party members who knew what they were doing - sorc, arti, druid - and it took us all of 3 seconds to kill the thing.

Water takes a little longer, but cube only has 2.5k hp. We're done with that room in 1 minute at most, and most of that time was spent just walking around due to the largeness of the room

Again, I really need to underscore how damn good the exp in Part 1-2 is now. 35k in 7 minutes. And we could've gone even faster, had we split up. That's almost Shadow Crypt tier right there. Sure, Part 1-1 is slower, but it's still very good exp/min.


I was actually thinking in terms of Epic/Legendary where even with a well-assembled party it takes several minutes. We used to skip out of the fights on epic because while doable it was faster to skip. Heroic is an entirely different animal. And honestly I've never actually done heroic. I think I'll give it a whirl this life, I just TRed into fist pally.
  
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iGouger
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #8 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 8:00pm
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Ah,yeah I could see how if you're doing like Legendary R10 and wanna skip some of the stuff. Dunno, I never play caster so I never have ddoor to test

Shunned wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 7:24pm:
arew these xp per min nmumbers with full buffs and a xp pot running?  Cause im wondering how much i suck


I have a 5% aug for my Crown of Butterflies, 5% guild airship shrine (the level 93 one which only lasts 1 hour), no xp pot, no VIP
  
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noamineo
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #9 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 3:05am
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I have a 5% aug for my Crown of Butterflies, 5% guild airship shrine (the level 93 one which only lasts 1 hour), no xp pot, no VIP


Shit, man; that means just a 30% pot would really make that shine.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #10 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 5:36pm
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no xp pot,


It's not much, but you can get 6 hour 10% pots for small eberron dragonshard frags.

My toons have stacks of the frags, but also stacks of the 50% so I don't bother.

If you run into anyone in my situation, they'd probably just give'em to you if you don't have (m)any. I normally do.
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2022 at 5:37pm by Slick Stick »  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #11 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:40pm
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My short review of ToEE:
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #12 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:41pm
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liljiggy wrote on Sep 3rd, 2022 at 6:40pm:




I mean, I wouldn't drive that. But, I kinda respect it.
  

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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #13 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 10:17pm
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R5 Legendary was a cake. R7, too if you are not an idiot. Next try will be R10. Rxp are okayish. Elementals rooms are just brainless repetition, air was a pita. Someone posted a guide on discord, torch positions seem to be always the same. But once you have done the elemental tempels you don't need to do them again. Thank god.
Last part is pretty short. You reach Zuggy by running up the pyramid and down the other side. The fight is nowhere as difficult as before. And I was a bit rusty.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #14 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 11:07pm
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I like how I got the email announcing the patch several days after it went live. Excellent work with communication by SSG.
  
I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 3:00am
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noamineo wrote on Sep 3rd, 2022 at 11:07pm:
I like how I got the email announcing the patch several days after it went live. Excellent work with communication by SSG.


I have SSG blocked as spam.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 11:59am
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contessor wrote on Sep 4th, 2022 at 3:00am:
I have SSG blocked as spam.


I actually like to get the weekly sales emails, which arrive in my inbox like clockwork every 2 months or so.
  
I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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iGouger
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 3:49pm
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Are you just being facetious, or do weekly sales emails actually exist? because I've NEVER received one, unless you count the email from yesterday.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #18 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 5:18pm
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Well done, more appealing as 7 10 Min quests at r10 yielding about 13k RXP each. Work them into your reaper lives for an easy extra 100k or so.
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #19 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 5:45pm
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Gunga wrote on Sep 4th, 2022 at 5:18pm:
Well done, more appealing as 7 10 Min quests at r10 yielding about 13k RXP each. Work them into your reaper lives for an easy extra 100k or so.


Look at you disagreeing with everyone else.  So cool and edgy  Cool
  
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Re: Thoughts on the new ToEE
Reply #20 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 9:57am
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Gunga wrote on Sep 4th, 2022 at 5:18pm:
Well done, more appealing as 7 10 Min quests at r10 yielding about 13k RXP each. Work them into your reaper lives for an easy extra 100k or so.


I sleep.
  
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