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noamineo
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #25 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 8:39pm
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Well, I would make the distinction between "passable, yet not ultra-optimized" and "plain ol suck." Handwraps right now: sorry, but they're "plain ol suck." Hence why we're all trying to come up with some ways to salvage the SF archetype.


It is pretty shitty. I'm only doing it because I love the handwraps animations and I have the Tharaak Wraps. Its fun to watch but slow as balls to play.

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I might've said it here before, or it might've been to one of my in-game buddies, but my gut feeling is: if I want to play a wraps Pally, then why wouldn't I just run something like 18 Pal KOTC/2 Monk? I really, really, REALLY cannot overstate just how fucking AWFUL the Sacred Fist tree is.

...Either way, why would I even want to run a handwrap pally to begin with?


Only possible reason is because the animations are fun to watch. However there is one good reason to specifically play Sacred Fist specifically:

Quote:
Past Life Sacred Fist: +5 Healing Amplification and +5 Positive Spell Power per stack


Technically its 3 good reasons.

EG: we're not playing it because its optimal. We're not playing it because its good. We're playing it because +15 hamp & positive spell power is good to have. That's a total 45 hamp for all 6 paladin PLs.
  
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ManyCookies
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #26 - Sep 9th, 2022 at 2:08am
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noamineo wrote on Sep 8th, 2022 at 2:14pm:
Or you could just not play sacred fist on a bladeforged iconic? Is it really THAT good?


Its not just sacred fist, im just annoyed by how every iconic is locked into the base class and cant take an archetype. I wanted to do tiefling scoundrel + storm singer mainly.

But anyway, i did want to do bladeforged lives + sacred fist lives at the same time to save time.

The advantage of bladeforged would be that the extra heal amp helps to offset the healing penalty and you get greatswords as a favored weapon. If you already have 3x paladin lives, its not a bad choice.

Edit : Apparently +0 hearts let you choose an archetype so at least its cheaper than using a +1 heart.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2022 at 2:27am by ManyCookies »  
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iGouger
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #27 - Sep 9th, 2022 at 11:37am
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noamineo wrote on Sep 8th, 2022 at 8:39pm:
EG: we're not playing it because its optimal. We're not playing it because its good. We're playing it because +15 hamp & positive spell power is good to have. That's a total 45 hamp for all 6 paladin PLs.


Yes, so with that in mind, that's why people are coming up with ways to play Sacred Fist that don't involve handwraps. You were saying "it's funny how everyone is trying to play Sacred Fist without actually going fist," and I was trying to explain the why. It's a shitty weapon type, it's a shitty tree, so people are trying to reap the past life bonuses while making the archetype tolerable.

Again, it's far from optimal (if you want an optimal build, just play KOTC or something), but going Sacred Fist quarterstaff/dagger/whatever else that ISN'T handwraps is leagues more enjoyable to most people than having to deal with Lynnabel's shittiest new tree.

ManyCookies wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 2:08am:
Its not just sacred fist, im just annoyed by how every iconic is locked into the base class and cant take an archetype. I wanted to do tiefling scoundrel + storm singer mainly.


This is what would annoy me too. It's about the principle.
  
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noamineo
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #28 - Sep 9th, 2022 at 3:51pm
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Yes, so with that in mind, that's why people are coming up with ways to play Sacred Fist that don't involve handwraps. You were saying "it's funny how everyone is trying to play Sacred Fist without actually going fist," and I was trying to explain the why.


I knew the why. I was just commenting on how amusing I found it. Speaks volumes to SSG's design asthetics when a class designed to do 1 specific thing is so bad at that thing that people will play it literally any other way.


Quote:
It's a shitty weapon type, it's a shitty tree, 


Agreed. One wonders why they didn't take this opportunity to make wraps less shitty in the process?

Some reasonable employee at SSG: "Hey, we're making a handwraps-focused paladin; what if we also bump up the damage dice on wraps so they aren't hot garbage?"
The Dev Team: trick question! There are no reasonable employees at SSG to make the suggestion in the first place.
  
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #29 - Sep 10th, 2022 at 12:28am
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SSG doesnt play the game so they have no idea that wraps are bad.
  
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noamineo
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #30 - Sep 10th, 2022 at 12:34am
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ManyCookies wrote on Sep 10th, 2022 at 12:28am:
SSG doesnt play the game so they have no idea that wraps are bad.


The players told them that, but they didn't listen.
  
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #31 - Sep 10th, 2022 at 10:16am
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noamineo wrote on Sep 10th, 2022 at 12:34am:
The players told them that, but they didn't listen.


Players have been telling them that since Razorclaw Shifter.

They don't want to listen or are so hell bent on keeping monks nerfed into the ground; that they'd make two shitty 'handwrap' using non-monks and still not get the memo that handwraps are hot garbage.
  
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noamineo
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Re: This will probably get deleted from the Mobos
Reply #32 - Sep 10th, 2022 at 3:23pm
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Edrein wrote on Sep 10th, 2022 at 10:16am:
Players have been telling them that since Razorclaw Shifter.


Oh they've been hearing it since way before Razorclaw. Think Pre-MOTU when wraps were even shittier because they stupidly weren't just codded as "weapons"; so in addition to all the current problems they were glitchy as fuck.

Edrein wrote on Sep 10th, 2022 at 10:16am:
They don't want to listen or are so hell bent on keeping monks nerfed into the ground; that they'd make two shitty 'handwrap' using non-monks and still not get the memo that handwraps are hot garbage.


There was a fun conversation with fat jerry when tabaxi trailblazer came out. It was pointed out to him that despite being brand new, the trailblazer's auto-granted gear is at the same power level as Bladeforged when introduced in fucking Update 18. At the time, BF gear was "mildly better than walking around naked" before 9 years of power creep made it so unforgivably garbage that the only part worth a damn is the feather fall on the boots.

cordo's dumb response? "We made it that way on purpose."

This is despite himself claiming that Iconics are supposed to help new players "get into the game". Yeah, with gear they can't even run heroic hard on. They'll be great for that.

Fucker.
  
I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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