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Legendary Greensteel
Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:22pm
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468414-Legendary-Green-Steel
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Legendary Shroud and Legendary Green Steel (LGS) are coming! This post is about the broad, general structure of Legendary Green Steel crafting.

As many players know, Green Steel is a wide-reaching, complex crafting system. Some of these concepts here are fairly high level and abstract. This is not a post where every possible Green Steel effect is going to be listed. We're going to explain how it works on a high level, and a bit about how we're expecting it to be different from heroic (though you shouldn't need to know that process in detail to understand most of this post!)

Some of the design goals driving choices below include simplification and reducing error as much as possible, while some relate to technical challenges in such a large system where we are adding Augments.


High Level Concepts
Legendary Green Steel is a crafting system by which you collect various ingredients, craft weapons of nearly any kind, or accessory/equipment slots (but not armor, and some equipment slots are missing), and can upgrade those items several times to make them stronger.

Here's what you do:


    Play Update 29 quests & raids, collecting ingredients. This includes all 3 raids - yes, Legendary Hound of Xoriat and Legendary Tempest Spine provide indirect access to Legendary Green Steel ingredients. (There's some extra steps here because we don't want to simply drop Devil Scales for players who might not even own the Vale and aren't going to be crafting LGS.) We currently plan for Tier 1 and Tier 2 ingredients to be found in various quests. Tier 3 ingredients will only drop in the Shroud.
    Craft "blank" weapons and equipment. This will use crafting materials primarily from Shroud end-chests.
    Craft Legendary Green Steel Augments (LGSA).
        Each blank LGS item has 4 Green Steel Augment Slots. These slots cannot hold any augments that exist in Update 28 or earlier, but instead hold various kinds of Legendary Green Steel augments crafted from LGS ingredients. (These slots only hold Green Steel Augments, and these Green Steel Augments only go in these slots, in other words.)
        There will be hundreds of different possible augments. There's a few different ways to count them, and some are definitely similar to one another, but depending on how you count them there are between ~120 and ~600 augments (depending on what you consider "different" augments - the lower number is ).



From a high level, that's Legendary Green Steel.

Legendary Green Steel Augments?
These are a new type of Augments, which are not compatible nor interchangeable with existing Augments and slots.

Each LGS blank has 4 slots: Tiers 1,2,3, plus an "Active" slot. Each tiered slot can hold an augment of the appropriate tier (crafted from ingredients), and the active slot can hold one augment which adds a "clicky" active ability to the item.

You can create and slot your Augments in any order. If you want to start with Tier 3, or just put in a an Active, go for it.

Weapons and Equipment (sometimes called "Accessories") have different tiered Augment slots. When you craft an augment, you might be specifically making a Tier 2 Weapon Air Dominion Ethereal augment, for instance. There is a similar augment for Equipment, but which produces a different effect than the weapon version, much like Heroic Green Steel. However, the Active slot is the same for weapons and equipment. Any active can be slotted into either weapons or equipment.

These Green Steel Augments will fit into existing Augment bags.

We expect to offer an ‘extractor’ type option in the Store specifically for these Green Steel Augments in the event that you want to replace a slot but don’t want to lose the augment you made.

Basic Information

    Minimum Level: All LGS items, weapons and equipment, are currently planned to be minimum level 26.
    Weapons have a base 5[W] damage.
    There is no 20th reward list for Legendary raids.
    You collect Codex Runes (name subject to change) by completing Legendary Shroud.
        These are used to craft Blank weapons and equipment, and to deal with the Legendary Taint of Shavarath on Equipment.
        You get more Codex Runes on Hard and even more on Elite.
        These are BTA.
        These might be used as turn-ins for other kinds of rewards (such as you might have found on a 20th reward list).

    You collect Legendary tiered ingredients that are highly analogous to the tiered ingredients in Heroic Green Steel.
        By "tiered", we mean things like Legendary Small Devil Scales, Legendary Medium Gnawed Bones, and Legendary Large Length of Infernal Chains.
        There are six different ingredients per tier (just like Heroic).
        These ingredients are BTA.

    Blanks are the initial Weapons and Equipment with empty Augment slots.
        These are created from Codex Runes at the Altar of Fecundity in Meridia. This is the exact same eldritch crafting device used for Heroic Green Steel. This one device has some of the recipes used for both Heroic and Legendary Green Steel.
        Blanks are ML:26, and BTC. Legendary Green Steel items don't change minimum level nor binding status.

    Crafting Legendary Green Steel Augments
        These are created at three different tiers of altars within the Shroud, like Heroic Green Steel.
        First you construct Focuses, Essences, and Gems at these altars, then combine those to create Augments. (This process is very similar to crafting Heroic Green Steel Shards.)
        Legendary Green Steel Focuses, Essences, Gems, and Augments are BTA.
        These Augments use a new custom UI. They don't behave exactly like existing (u28 and earlier) Augments!

    Handwraps are not included in Legendary Green Steel in Update 29. We wanted to get the revamp of handwrap technology in for Update 29, but that's a fairly massive task and just couldn't be done. We understand this is quite frustrating for some players.




Deeper Details & Similarities and Difference from Heroic
The general structure is broadly similar to Heroic Green Steel.

Many Legendary Augments are similar to Heroic Shards

Our current plan is to that most of the tiered effects of Legendary Augments be similar in nature to the effects found in Heroic Shards, scaled up to Legendary potency. Bonuses here include things like spell powers, Wizardry, hitpoints, Exceptional bonuses to ability scores, saving throws, and bonuses to "Charisma" skills (for example), Insightful ability scores, Inherent elemental resist, etc. These are all kinds of bonuses currently accessible Heroic Green Steel tiered shards.

Barter Shop style UI
Like most modern crafting systems, you can see all the recipes. Just like Heroic Green Steel is like now, since my first task years ago converting the old mystery system to the new system.

Weapon & Equipment Augments
In Heroic, you make a single shard and apply it to either a weapon or equipment (aka: accessory), getting a different effect depending on which you put it in. Due to the use of Augments here, and lacking a desire to be highly mysterious, there are separate Augments for Weapons vs. Accessories. When you make a Tier 1 Fire Dominion Ethereal augment, you also choose if you are making a weapon or equipment augment, which can tell you exactly what it's going to do, unlike Heroic Green Steel (since the Shard could have been put into either a Weapon or Equipment.)

Tier 2 Active / Clicky / "Bonus" effects
Tier 1,2,3 Augments are very similar to Heroic shards of the same tiers. Instead of crafting a tier 3 Magma shard and applying it to your tier 2 weapon, you just craft a tier 3 Magma Weapon Augment and slot it into your weapon (possibly crushing the existing augment to bits). You don't have to go through the tiers in ascending order.

Those familiar with Heroic GS and paying close attention may notice the Active slot - in Heroic, this was generally granted by a "tier 2 Bonus Effect" (as it was sometimes known), which you got by choosing the appropriate Tier 1 and Tier 2 focuses - such as tier 1 Fire and tier 2 Positive (Radiance), or Fire and Earth (Magma), or even Fire and Fire (Aspect of Fire). For both design and technical reasons, we're removing the tier 2 Bonus Effects per se. There's no special bonus for what you put into the tier 1 and tier 2 slots (not public, not secret).

However, we're adding the "Active" augment slot so you can still put a clicky in your Green Steel. It will be another option and axis - the choice is independent of all tiered abilities. You pick one clicky no matter what other choices you make - it's not inherently tied to the Focuses you put into tier. These clickies will generally be for new abilities; they won't just be Heroic Green Steel effects (scaled up or otherwise), though we're still considering if some of the Heroic active abilities are so desirable that we should replicate them in Legendary.

Active slots will be identical between weapons and equipment. Whatever Active Augment you make, it can be slotted into either weapon or equipment.

We realize some items are likely to end up with nothing but a clicky on them. That's OK. We'll try to be careful with the cost of clickies with this in mind.

Tier 3 Augments
This may make more sense for those familiar with Heroic Green Steel.

    Tier 3 Augments are always created with two Focuses, a Primary and Secondary (in addition to an Essence and Gem, like Heroic Green Steel). So you might make a tier 3 Fire earth Dominion Material Augment, for instance (aka: Magma).
    There are no single-focus tier 3 Augments. You can make a Fire Fire tier 3 augment, however.
    Unlike Heroic Green Steel, you can pick any Focus to be the Primary. This Primary Focus determines which tier 3 effect the augment provides - it doesn't provide both bonuses, only the one from the Primary Focus. (In heroic, there was always a "dominant" Focus. This was fairly restrictive, as it meant you couldn't actually get tier 3 Negative effects except by making a Triple Negative item, because negative was always the 'secondary' Focus - and some elements were similarly over-represented while others were difficult to get.) This increases the number of options by 6x - so the 36 tier 1 & 2 shards becomes 216 tier 3 Augments (for each of Weapons and Equipment).
    To re-iterate, there's nothing in Legendary like a "single affinity shard". Everything is a Dual Shard. The heroic method of creating Dual Shards (which were most player's goal!) were a frequent source of confusion, error, and frustration. While having 216 Weapon and 216 Equipment tier 3 Shards is still complex, we hope that this method helps make the complexity both more obvious (so you know what to watch for!) and a bit more comprehensible, and most of all far less error prone. (The common, and costly, mistake of applying one tier 3 heroic shard before trying to add a second tier 3 heroic shard is impossible in Legendary.)



Tier 3 "Bonus" Effects etc.
This flavor & to an extent "mystery" is retained. This is what the Primary & Secondary focuses in tier 3 are about - the secondary focus only really matters for this. Based on your slotted Augments, you receive a bonus effect. The bonus effect is only shows up after putting the augments in, since it depends on combinations of all three tiers of augments.

Tier 3 Bonus Effects may or may not be similar to Heroic versions (scaled up to higher numbers if so). Some of this may depend on time, but we'd like to be more creative here - rather than in the normal Tiered effects, which are mostly well suited for simply coming up into Legendary with higher value numbers.

Legendary Taint of Shavarath
It's real, and painful if you equip multiple pieces of Legendary Green Steel Equipment. Exact methods for dealing with it will be somewhat analogous to heroic. Details to come later.

Other Heroic Ingredients
Many ingredients from Heroic are not making the transition to Legendary. This includes most of the blank-creation ingredients such as Chipmunk Funk, Tapers, Shavarath Stones, and Signet Stones. They didn't really fit the model for Legendary as they did for heroic Vale, and in many ways were a source of confusion and unnecessary complexity.




Thanks for reading!

We're happy to hear your feedback on anything here. Or really about a whole ton of things relating to Legendary Green Steel. It's a big complex system. We expect questions, comments, feedback, concerns, etc.

There will be some more details upcoming, including what you can expect to see on Lamannia soon (which is not everything!)

  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:22pm
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Quote:

What will be in upcoming Lamannia:

The system is not fully ready for preview, with all details, and there's a lot of elements we're happier to get some feedback with now rather than later. However, we wanted to get a large chunk available for players to examine and work with, sort of as a large scale prototype and preview of what we're actually going for.

What's Ready?

    The Legendary Green Steel Augment system is mostly ready. This includes a new UI!
    Weapons and Tiered augments, for all of tiers 1,2,3, are ready for preview.
    You can also create Equipment blanks.



What's Not Ready?

    Active Augments are not available.
    Tier 3 bonus effects remain mysterious and unavailable.
    Equipment augments for all tiers 1 are generally unavailable. (Some might do some things, but they are all a work in progress and not representative of ... things that are working right.)
    The base items (blanks) do not yet have upgraded tooltips that show the fact that these items have Augment slots at all, or what Augments are slotted in them. The only way to look at the Legendary Green Steel Augments right now is to actually open the new Legendary Green Steel Augment panel.




Can I see this UI?
There's a new button in the Inventory panel:



You can either (1) just click on the new icon or (2) drag a blank item (with Augment slots) onto the new icon. This opens this panel:



At this point you can drag Augment items from your inventory into these slots to slot them. This will destroy any Augment already there.
  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 4:31pm
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Flav wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:22pm:
There is no 20th reward list for Legendary raids.

  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:25pm
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uh.....
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:30pm
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To be harsh, this "new" system is mostly a copy-paste of the previous system with "legendary" in front.  Disappointing.
On one hand, it is probably for the best though because it is less likely for them to screw it up, but it certainly shows a lack of innovation.

On the plus side, they do sound like they have addressed some of the issues with the previous system to make it less confusing and less prone to people making expensive mistakes.

As always the level of grind will determine how great it is.

Looking ahead......how do you think they will slot sentient weapons into this mix?
Will GS2 eclipse Thunderforged - which are also grindy and getting nerfed?
I would have thought GS2 would be best left for equipment, and leave weapons to a sentient system.
You can imagine there is a fair bit of work involved building a GS2 weapon - will that be invalidated by Sentient weapons?
I hope they have thought this through.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:10am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
Will GS2 eclipse Thunderforged - which are also grindy and getting nerfed?


Yes
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #6 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 2:04am
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OldCoaly wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 4:31pm:
[20th List death]



Turbine wanted to kill it last year; got rebuked by 2014 PC; They managed to pass it through this year;
It was bound to happen...

  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 2:43am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
To be harsh, this "new" system is mostly a copy-paste of the previous system with "legendary" in front.  Disappointing.
On one hand, it is probably for the best though because it is less likely for them to screw it up, but it certainly shows a lack of innovation.

On the plus side, they do sound like they have addressed some of the issues with the previous system to make it less confusing and less prone to people making expensive mistakes.

As always the level of grind will determine how great it is.

Looking ahead......how do you think they will slot sentient weapons into this mix?
Will GS2 eclipse Thunderforged - which are also grindy and getting nerfed?
I would have thought GS2 would be best left for equipment, and leave weapons to a sentient system.
You can imagine there is a fair bit of work involved building a GS2 weapon - will that be invalidated by Sentient weapons?
I hope they have thought this through.

From what ive seen on lamma, itll be complementary.  Eg. Quality exceptional spellpower.  Didnt have much time to look.  23 pages per tier, lots of redundancy.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:01am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
To be harsh, this "new" system is mostly a copy-paste of the previous system with "legendary" in front.  Disappointing.


In fairness, players are generally more comfortable with familiarity, especially when it's nominally the same crafting system--going by the "green steel" label--and those familiar with GS will know what to expect. I personally don't mind this so much. People would complain either way: it's too similar, "not creative enough;" it's too different, "too confusing." In the end I don't think it really matters all that much, especially compared to some of Legendary GS's long-lasting consequences.

I do agree strongly with your other point though:
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
Will GS2 eclipse Thunderforged - which are also grindy and getting nerfed?
I would have thought GS2 would be best left for equipment, and leave weapons to a sentient system.
You can imagine there is a fair bit of work involved building a GS2 weapon - will that be invalidated by Sentient weapons?
I hope they have thought this through.


Classic power creep in action. I think the idea to introduce yet another ML form of weapons is an awful idea, since we've already been given thunderforged and ToEE crap. Depending on how potent these new GS items are, they will either completely invalidate thunderforged, or they will do nothing to impact the itemization metagame. The latter is more-or-less what ToEE did, since Thunderforged is superior in virtually every aspect.

So will GS be ToEE part 2 and be forgotten about as soon as it came, or will it render the past ML 26 loot obsolete? Either way, the consequence won't be good, and by setting up yet another ML 26 system of loot, Turbine is preemptively setting themselves up for failure. Seems to me that it would be much more rational to set them as ML 22 or 20 or something, or alternately ML 30, since this game right now has a dearth of epic "Twink" items for low levels as well as a shortage of true "endgame" loot.
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:02am by »  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #9 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 3:37pm
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Flav wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 2:04am:
Turbine wanted to kill it last year; got rebuked by 2014 PC; They managed to pass it through this year;
It was bound to happen...



As long as the drop rates aren't rediculous this doesn't really bother me. I don't think the 20th lists were even brought up with the PC this year.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 2:06am
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This isn't a Green Steel update; it's random crafting systems thrown in a blender, with "Legundry" hastily magic-markered on the box.

But who's surprised? That's the same relationship between DDO & D&D.

There's no sense of continuity between Green Steel and Legendary Green Steel. They really ought to have made these further augmentations craftable on top of existing Green Steel. The least they could have done was use the same blanks, or kept the power shards (the practical limiter on dupping). Instead there's nothing but name, and mechanics that bear a vague resemblance to the original, but use a different system. +80 Buttzillion new ingredients.

I hope they hand out free colossal bags to every toon.

All combined with the same backwards interface that makes searching for what you want take 3 to 10 times longer.

Tier 3 has 6 effects. (25, if you push it, calling each flavor of boost its own thing.)
Each page holds 20 listings. That ought to fit on 2 pages, right?

Nope. Turbine managed to squeeze this:

    37 Exceptional spell power (x6)
    Blast damage (x6)
    +2 Exceptional stats (x6)
    +9 Exceptional MRR
    35% Enhancement absorption (x5)
    70 Competence healing amp.

into 23 pages.

Hello! Devs? A moment of your time, if I may? Talk to your fucking graphics dept. Talk to your payroll dept. Talk to anyone who knows how to make a fucking flowchart. Streamline this embarrassing vomitcraft.
  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #11 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:18am
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Hmmm.

So Mortal Fear is still probably optimal in anything except Epic Shroud.

So I need a new Green Steel item to be uber in Epic Shroud.

But it sounds like if I don't run Epic Shroud, then I don't need to replace my Mortal Fear weapons.

Winning.  Cool
  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #12 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:41am
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Revaulting wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 2:06am:
This isn't a Green Steel update; it's random crafting systems thrown in a blender, with "Legundry" hastily magic-markered on the box.

But who's surprised? That's the same relationship between DDO & D&D.

There's no sense of continuity between Green Steel and Legendary Green Steel. They really ought to have made these further augmentations craftable on top of existing Green Steel. The least they could have done was use the same blanks, or kept the power shards (the practical limiter on dupping). Instead there's nothing but name, and mechanics that bear a vague resemblance to the original, but use a different system. +80 Buttzillion new ingredients.

I hope they hand out free colossal bags to every toon.


No, but in the DDO store they have added many 250 slot expansions to the crafting storage......

  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:45am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:18am:
Hmmm.

So Mortal Fear is still probably optimal in anything except Epic Shroud.

So I need a new Green Steel item to be uber in Epic Shroud.

But it sounds like if I don't run Epic Shroud, then I don't need to replace my Mortal Fear weapons.

Winning.  Cool


Didn't they say all content with a quest level of 31 or greater will become legendary?
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #14 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:11am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:45am:
Didn't they say all content with a quest level of 31 or greater will become legendary?


Did I forget the sarcasm smiley?  Cheesy

But seriously, how much 31+ content are you expecting with a permanent level cap of 30?
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:12am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #15 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:27am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:41am:
No, but in the DDO store they have added many 250 slot expansions to the crafting storage......


Yeah, I thought the same. I may have been stupid enough to buy store bags on my characters in the early days, but I'm not stupid enough to do it again.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #16 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:28am
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I'm working along the same logical lines as 5FS and I don't even own any MF TF.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #17 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:36am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:45am:
Didn't they say all content with a quest level of 31 or greater will become legendary?


No exactly.

They said that from now on all new content with Base Quest Level at Level 30 or higher will be Legendary Quest.

and we have already LVL 31+ content in game...

Honestly, I don't think they will hold to the 30 limit... After the level raise I see them going into a huge round of
code cleaning, and then another round of system changes... and yet another level raise ( say 35 )...

PnP D&D 3.5 is unravelling at the edges at LVL 20... Beyond that the Epic Levels are just a band aid to try to hide the issues,
but it doesn't work well. Beyond 30 there is nothing, the system completely breaks. That's probably one of the main reasons why they have
steadily moved away from D&D/D20. They will keep some of it, but I expect some more system changes to get as much percentile based stuff
( like PRR/MRR and so on ) as possible. It's way easier to code, it's way easier to maintain, and it's easier to understand for joe gamer.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:36am by Flav »  

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5 Foot Step
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #18 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:55am
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kum-gulp wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:28am:
I'm working along the same logical lines as 5FS and I don't even own any MF TF.


Grind complete.  Cheesy

Flav wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:36am:
Honestly, I don't think they will hold to the 30 limit... After the level raise I see them going into a huge round of
code cleaning, and then another round of system changes... and yet another level raise ( say 35 )...


/sigh

I'd like to think that they weren't that retarded...but if they weren't then they would have found a way to add epic progression while never going beyond 20 cap. Granted it's different people now, but they seem even less qualified somehow.

Still, they've been hyping this level 30 endgame for what, a couple years now? Surely they won't be rushing to raise it again right away.

You know, with those three more raids coming out, we might actually start seeing an endgame raid train scene rather than the status quo of running the raid of the month ad nauseam.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:58am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Meursault
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #19 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:51am
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kum-gulp wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:28am:
I'm working along the same logical lines as 5FS and I don't even own any MF TF.

Ditto
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #20 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 12:35pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:55am:
Still, they've been hyping this level 30 endgame for what, a couple years now? Surely they won't be rushing to raise it again right away.

You know, with those three more raids coming out, we might actually start seeing an endgame raid train scene rather than the status quo of running the raid of the month ad nauseam.


well a few years ago, when they raised to 28 they did say that 30 was going to be the end... nowadays when you read between the lines, the raise to 30 is just yet another level cap raise, and they stopped saying that 30 is the end some time last year.

and yes we are starting to see something that can be termed as end game as we knew it :

- Old : Piker's Fate, Shroud, HoX, VoD, E-Velah, E-Kween, LoB, MA, E-Chrono, Wabbot, DYK

- New : FoT, E-Shroud, E-HoX, E-Velah ( it's still somewhat current ), E-Kween ( same ), E-TS, MoD, DoJ, Peak and Wyrm.
           ( E-Chrono can be added to the list as optional )

Now if only there was something to keep people at cap for a while instead of doing  a (E/I)TR as soon as they reach cap.
I don't think BTA/BTC Exquisite/Legendary Greensteel ingredients farming will do the trick... that was the genius of the initial Greensteel,
you could farm it if you wanted, but you could also let other do the farming and pay ( plat ) for the result... you still had to do Shroud a few times to get the Crystals and to use the Altars if you didn't want to farm... And on the other hand you could farm all the quests ( and the raid ) to get lots of ingredient and sell them if you were into that.

  

Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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davenot
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #21 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:09pm
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I do like that the ML is 26, at least 4 lvs of use is nice.
  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #22 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:35pm
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Flav wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
- Old : Piker's Fate, Shroud, HoX, VoD, E-Velah, E-Kween, LoB, MA, E-Chrono, Wabbot, DYK

- New : FoT, E-Shroud, E-HoX, E-Velah ( it's still somewhat current ), E-Kween ( same ), E-TS, MoD, DoJ, Peak and Wyrm.
           ( E-Chrono can be added to the list as optional )

The one pretty important difference between your "new" and "old" is that in old game the raid gear wasn't completely obsoleted in next update.
Plus there were tomes dropping in raid and from 20th and not just in fucking Store.
How can they expect some lasting content ? Some people still are running DoJ with 12 stat items and we are getting 14/7/2 crap now ? Wtf.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:37pm by Wipe »  
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #23 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:22pm
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Flav wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:36am:
No exactly.

They said that from now on all new content with Base Quest Level at Level 30 or higher will be Legendary Quest.

and we have already LVL 31+ content in game...

Honestly, I don't think they will hold to the 30 limit... After the level raise I see them going into a huge round of
code cleaning, and then another round of system changes... and yet another level raise ( say 35 )...

PnP D&D 3.5 is unravelling at the edges at LVL 20... Beyond that the Epic Levels are just a band aid to try to hide the issues,
but it doesn't work well. Beyond 30 there is nothing, the system completely breaks. That's probably one of the main reasons why they have
steadily moved away from D&D/D20. They will keep some of it, but I expect some more system changes to get as much percentile based stuff
( like PRR/MRR and so on ) as possible. It's way easier to code, it's way easier to maintain, and it's easier to understand for joe gamer.


This.

Flav beat me to it. I'm thinking that we'll be staring down the barrel of Level 35 soon and possibly Lvl 40.

There's precedent for Lvl 40 even in PnP, although not in 3.5 ruleset.

This kind of creep has to be sorted, if for no other reason than it makes more work down the road.

Not that they won't bugger it up royally, but it'll  happen sooner rather than later.
  

I Got Nothin'.
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Re: Legendary Greensteel
Reply #24 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:06pm
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They would be crazy to even contemplate beyond lvl 30 for many years.  They need to re-establish end-game.

They are only just starting to fill in the void of content to do at level 30.  I doubt they would be keen to invalidate all that work.

Assuming they learnt something from going to lvl 28 before content was ready, have they got the resources and funding to pre-produce lvl 30-35 content before they enable those levels?  I doubt it.
What would they add for levels 30-35?  More "yawn" feats?

I honestly don't think beyond level 30 is in their plans.  They are running out of ideas for current updates and rehashing stuff, so I can't see them embracing more new things.
  
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